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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Cat D5 final drive problem?

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Jamesfnp

07-24-2007 19:44:19




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We just purchased a 1972 D5 S/N 96J4440 that was a TVA dozer with 1700 hours on it. It had been sitting a long time. It has one track adjuster that will have to be replaced. We knew that when we bought it. The seller was upfront about it. It has a crack in the spring, and the housing leaks grease. Will not tighten the track up.

Upon greasing it today, changing and checking fluids, air filters, etc, we checked the left final drive and no oil ran out. It was packed with grease? The right side had oil in it and ran out? Which is correct and why does one side have grease and the other oil? Is there a bigger problem here? I thought it was to have an SAE 50 oil in the final drives?

By the way, she fires right up without problems, and has no vissible leaks anywhere. She does have a fresh paint job and new decals. Maybe this should have been a clue?

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NC Wayne

07-25-2007 19:44:56




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
As another post said you have been had. The left side was packed with grease most likely because the sprocket seals are leaking. These are what CAT calls DuoCone seals. They are comprised of two highly polished metal rings that ride face to face and are held I contact with each other, under pressure, with what amounts to two BIG O-rings. There will be one on the inside of the sprocket between it and the housing as well as one on the outside between the sprocket and the track frame. When these start leaking fluid out then its a guarantee that water and grit can get in. The grease, like another post said will not get into he bearings to lube them properly so it's basically worthless in that housing. To repair this you have to remove the track frame as well as have the sprocket pulled off and pressed back on. Good luck finding someone with the correct tools.... We've got a few here we've scrounged over the years and made ourselves but their extreemely hard to come by and when you do find them their EXPENSIVE-----As for the excess oil in the right side, that is indicitive of another problem that the left side probably has as well. The excess oil comes from the center housing that encloses the bevel gear and steering clutchs. This is caused by the seal on the pinion shaft going bad typically due to age and hardening of the seal or bearing wear causing the seal to lose its shape and therefore contact with the pinion shaft. To repair this everything over that rear housing cover has to come off...ROPS, seat, fuel tank, etc etc....in oreder to get into the housing. Once in the brakes and steering clutches have to be pulled to get to the end of the pinion shaft in order to pull it.----- Considering the problem you've got your best bet would be to go ahead and reseal/repair both final drive housings as well as resealing the pinion shafts. Doing either repair alone is pretty much worthless. If you fix the final drive seals then any oil put in will tend to stay in so your good there. Problem is the leaking pinion shaft will overfill the final drive housings with lightweight oil and eventually cause gear damage because the light oil isn't designed for the gear loads encountered. ----- Whaterver you do though you need to do it quick. If you catch the problem before any damage is done to the bearings or gears you'll be able to get away with just the cost of labor and a few hundred dollars for seals. If you wait and gears are damaged them your talking BIG money.-----As an independent mechanic that works alot on the the older heavy equipment I'd venture a guess to do all the repairs you need done, including replacing the track adjuster seals in both sides (since it would be foolish not to when both tracks are already gonna be broken), and tthe recoil spring, somewhere between $10,000 to $15,000.(I figured that at our present rate of $84 per hour with at least ten days at ten hours a day for the labor. That works out to $8400 in labor alone and, doesn't include any mileage) The rest is figuring best and worst case scenerios depending on what damage is found when the machine is opened up.----Good luck.

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Jamesfnp

07-25-2007 10:19:34




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
TVA=Tennessee Valley Authority. My father-in-law owns the dozer. He said that was probabley the culprit. This dozer really dosen't show any wear. Sprockets look good, idler pulleys, undercarriage all look good, but....I think we've been had as one posted.



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Don K.

07-25-2007 05:10:27




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
Only 1700 hours and a 70 model? I think you had better get someone to go completely over the machine and see what else is hidden before you start to use it.



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AJK

07-25-2007 02:09:55




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
In a word you have been done, grease was put in there so you would not see it leaking, grease in the final drive will not lubricate it as the bearings depend on splash lubrication, especially the pinion bearing, should that fail it will make a very big job out of a big job, if the pinion bearing fails the steering clutches has to come out to get to the pinion retaining nut, you will have to split the track, and remove the track frame, a special heavy duty puller is required to pull the sprocket, there may be a freelance man in your area that has one, if not it either you get your Cat dealer come to you or you take the whole final drive unit off and bring it to them, you can remove the whole unit after you get the outer hub off the dead axle, before you take the hub off back off the bearing adjustment, you need to remove the lock from the adjusting ring, loosen the clamp bolt and screw the adjusting ring clockwise half a dozen turns as the bearing preload has to be set when the hub is put back on and the retaining nut is torqued up to spec, with the hub nut off protect the threads on the dead axle so they won"t get damaged, take out all the bolts that hold the final drive cover to the backend, there are threaded holes near the dowels to jack it off, do it evenly, when off the dowels it will lift straight out and take it to the dealer, inspect the pinion and get rid of any grease, if the pinion is ok and you can feel no play in the bearing you will not have to go any further, use a new cover gasket when putting the unit back, the hub bearing will need to be preloaded, when you get that far come back. Don’t hurt your hand when you smack the guy that sold you that machine, he deliberately has tried to deceive you and you should try and recover the cost of the repair.
AJ

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Old Magnet

07-25-2007 07:25:46




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to AJK, 07-25-2007 02:09:55  
Hi AJ,
Was looking for your words on checking/replacing the duo-cone seals. Can you add your recommendations??



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AJK

07-25-2007 10:32:56




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Old Magnet, 07-25-2007 07:25:46  
When sprockets were removed for any reason the check whether to use the old seals was the width of the contact area on the cones mating surface, if there was a nice even grey ring 360° around no wider than 3/16 they were ok to use providing the jerky rings had no cuts or bruises, if the cones were worn too thin or there was any rust or pitting we renew them, it would be a hanging offence to have a leak on a customers machine and we would have to be done again at our expense so no chances were taken, the most cause of the duo cone starting to leak in service is something getting in there esp wire or the bearings getting loose and nothing done till its too late.
AJ

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Old Magnet

07-24-2007 21:52:57




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
Final drive lube should be 140wt for above 32 deg.F....90wt for 10 - 32 deg F according to my manual.....even up to 200wt is ok but not grease which tends to channel and not lube where flow is required. Billy NY has pretty well nailed it. The grease is a "fix" for a problem. Either leaking seals or worse.
The track adjuster is rebuildable if the seal surfaces are intact. Usually it's just the seals that go out. Recoil spring will need to be replaced.

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Billy NY

07-24-2007 20:36:51




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 Re: Cat D5 final drive problem? in reply to Jamesfnp, 07-24-2007 19:44:19  
What is "TVA" ? Just curious, government agency ? Hours seem low, but sometimes turn out legit, most times not, good to keep in mind, that and the fresh paint.

Not the most qualified to comment on this, but that adjuster is probably the least of your woes, do use care around the recoil spring when replacing it, assuming this one has the large spring like the old ones did.

Get the operators instructions, serviceman's reference book and parts catalog for it, will be very helpful and or necessary for repairs, books should match the serial number of the tractor.


The grease, first thing that comes to mind is a leak in that final drive compartment, at least it was not run dry, (hope that is the case). Not sure how you can determine what is going on in there unless you flush out that grease and fill with oil again, look for a leak, check for metal chunks at the bottom with a magnet, pry against the sprocket to see if it's loose on the dead axle, listen for noise when moving the tractor, worst case is you'll have to break the track, pull the sprocket and get look inside to see if any of the gears, shaft or spines are damaged, also replace necessary seals, which may be the source of the leak. Check the final drive case for cracks, something is awry there if it's got grease in it. Hopefully you got it real cheap, final drive repairs can be costly.

Again, this is rank amateur advice from someone who has operated more than worked on these, so take with a grain of salt.

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