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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

CAT 955H Generator 2

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Norcal Dave

08-06-2007 09:25:40




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Thanks so much for your help so far. This is what I've found out based on the various tests that you've had me run. This is a 60A-7963, 24V system with generator.

The charged batteries are coming in at #1 12.36 and #2 12.94Vdc. The ammeter does not move positive, but it shows a draw under preheat.

I found the regulator on the inside of compartment under the seat. The hydraulic filter is mounted to the outside of the wall, covered by a guard. This tractor has a hyster 35,000 winch on its rear end so the #2 battery box is located above the hydraulic filter, with a guard below it. I removed the guard below the fuel tank and found the regulator inside there, although very difficult access. I cannot read which terminals are which, however based on your picture I polarized between the rearmost and middle terminals and got an arc that made me jump. No change in the ammeter, nor when I probe the battery with the multimeter, just reads the same 12.36 or 12.94Vdc.

The next step was to disconnect the field wire from the generator, and replace it with a wire from Field to a ground (grounded off to a bolt on the oil cooler). I disconnected the Arm wire and bolted my multimeter + probe to the Arm stud; and the negative probe I grounded against the body. At low RPM I got 4-6.5Vdc, and when I ran the throttle up full I got 15.5 to 16 Vdc or so.

So with a 24V generator (verified by nameplate) I'm thinking I should see well over 24Vdc on full throttle, so I think the generator is not producing enough voltage. I took it off and will hopefully take it in to get it bench tested and reworked.

But it was producing some power, up to 16Vdc. Why are the batteries showing no voltage increase at all?

How can the regulator be tested? Could it be stopping the charge from going to the batteries? When I reinstall the generator do I have to repolarize it again?

How can you tell, on a very difficult to access regulator which terminal is which (arm/bat/field)?

Once again, thank you for all your most generous help

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Norcal Dave

08-07-2007 14:12:11




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Norcal Dave, 08-06-2007 09:25:40  
So we took the generator to Peterson CAT who suggested we put in an alternator in its place, but alot of fabrication and new wiring harnesses, so we wanted the unit rebuilt and CAT sent us to another outfit.

They tried to bench test it but I guess the bearings on both ends were shot so they couldnt. They sold us a rebuilt one for $450 or so. With the motor running there was no way to tell the bearings were shot, and when I took it off, it turned smoothly. We also bought a new regulator at their suggestion.

So it sounds like because I got an arc when I polarized it, I might have a short. I guess I should disconnect it on both ends and add power to it. I really apologize but I am just learning automotive electrical by going out based on your instruction and figureing it out. Is this done with a multimeter on the ohms setting? How do I test for a short in the wire? I don't care for getting shocked.

Second, when I replace the regulator with the new one, can I just connect the old wires to the regulator just the way they came off? Note in the picture that they are all painted and I have no way of know what they are by color code. Also note in the picture that there is a 4th wire that bolts to the steel (a ground I guess) and another small wire to the left of the regulator. What are these extra wires? Do i have to polarize again at the regulator?

What should happen when I use the jumper to polarize if its not supposed to arc? How would I know I accomplished it (polarization)? The proceedure: Once I install the generator and regulator and hook up all the wires I need to turn ignition on (without the engine running), then jump bat and arm at the regulator. Do I need to take out the commutator before I do this? How would I take that out, when its mounted and the fan belt is on the pully?

Again, thank you fellas so much. I know this is very remedial for you but I sure appreciate you fellas taking the time to teach me. Its a great help and I really enjoy learning it too.

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AJK

08-07-2007 15:33:57




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Norcal Dave, 08-07-2007 14:12:11  
There were thousands of those generators rebuilt at my place as we did all our own in house electrical and fuel injection, your shop more than likely has polarized the generator when on the test bench, I won"t bother explaining the actual reason for the need to polarize generators but all it does is restore magnetism in the field poles in the right direction generators need some magnetism to get started, this can be lost if the unit is idle for a long time, it is worked on or someone is messing about with jumper leads, now that you got new units you should be up and running in no time,go to the link below for a wiring diagram of the 24V system of that era.
AJ

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Bob/Ont

08-07-2007 15:32:44




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Norcal Dave, 08-07-2007 14:12:11  
Dave, lift the gen out put brushes up and the springs will hold them off the comutator. Then the polarizing current will only go to the field to set up the field coils. Then drop the main brushes down on commutator. Make sure the batt ground is as the reg is marked 24 P or N.
Then start up and see what happens.
Later Bob



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AJK

08-14-2007 02:20:38




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Bob/Ont, 08-07-2007 15:32:44  
Delco never made anything but A type charging systems,A type charging systems do not require the brushes lifting to polarize the generator,opening the generator voids any warranty,a B type charging system differs slightly in the ploarizing but highly unlightly you will come across it on a 955,all the 24V starting/charging systems were always negative ground from the start,the older machines with starting engines and 6V generators on them were positive ground,regulators are not polarity sensitive.
AJ

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Bob/Ont

08-07-2007 07:03:39




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Norcal Dave, 08-06-2007 09:25:40  
Dave, here is the deal with polerizing 24V generators. They have very heavy armature windings and that is why you got that big ZAP. To polerize lift the output brushes off the commutator, connect bat to arm. The field is a much lighter winding and you shouldn't see much of an arc. Now to make sure you have the bat ground right Neg/Pos, clean off the mounting area of the regulator and look for 24V N or 24V P. Polerizing is to get the field coil North / South in the right direction to produce power to match your ground.
Later Bob

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AJK

08-06-2007 12:36:33




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to Norcal Dave, 08-06-2007 09:25:40  
The hot wire (orange) on the regulator is connected to the BAT terminal,the middle terminal is the ARM or Gen terminal (brown) the FLD wire is light green,you should not have had a big arc when you polarized the generator,Take the wire off both ends,from the ARM terminal on the regulator and generator and apply power to it as it sounds as it may be grounding,if its ok connect it again to the generator and apply power again to it for a split second,you should not get an arc,if that checks try the same with the regulator,if you get an arc something is grounding and you need to find it,when you test the generator you need over 27V for it to be able to charge the batteries.
AJ

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ECL

08-17-2007 19:31:29




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 Re: CAT 955H Generator 2 in reply to AJK, 08-06-2007 12:36:33  
Hello. Sounds like you"re knowledgeable on this stuff. I"m working on my HD 20 AC dozer. It"s a 24 v system with positive gound. The starter is working ok, but I"m having some difficulty with making the generator charge. I hook it up to the battery and it discharges 30 Amps when running. I"ve applied voltage to the field and don"t make any progress.
The field doesn"t have continuity to ground. It has 7 ohms resistance from it to the armature.
I"d like to hook it up to just switch on the charging for a short time and manually switch off. To avoid an expensive regulator. I"d appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks.

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