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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter???

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hayrookie

09-23-2007 07:12:42




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I have a mid 70"s John deere 410 backhoe. Was using it yesterday lifting a few logs and had the engine stalled out I think from the heavy load. I tried to start the engine and the solenoid engages and you hear the the starter try to turn but it won"t. The solenoid was replaced about 2 weeks ago. The starter looks pretty old. I have "according to the fuel gauge" a quarter tank of fuel. I don"t know much about diesels but does it get any kind of vapor lock if they are run out of fuel that would cause the engine to be hard to turn over. I cleaned the battery terminals and the ground strap for the ground cable where it bolts to the transmission housing. I also fully charged the battery. Any ideas? Anything else I should try or could it be the starter.

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hayrookie

09-26-2007 02:35:08




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-23-2007 07:12:42  
I have tried a new battery from another tractor. Same results voltage wise on the readings. I took of the coupler between the crankshaft and the front hydro pump to rule out the pump being siezed. This time I used a remote starter switch and stood next to the engine so I could watch the crankshaft and I could see it turn about a 1/4 inch each time I activated the starter. Wasn't really anywhere to get a wrench on the crank pulley. The bolt that holds it on is recessed and the ratchet hits the part for the hydro pump. I will try to take the starter somewhere today to have it tested. I did take it off and try it on the bench and it worked, but obviously with no load on it. It seems like it just needs a little more uummff to get the engine to turn over. Does any of this sound familar or make any sense to anyone with previous starter or engine problems. I am hoping its not the engine, but am also preparing myself for the worst. Have only had it for about a month so you know I won't hear the end of it if it is the engine. I have already heard "you've only had it a month and its already broke down" LOL..
Thanks again everyone..

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Case450

09-24-2007 18:31:05




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-23-2007 07:12:42  
Is there oil in it? Does it smell burnt or like diesel fuel or coolant? See if you can get that engine to turn over by hand...if it does then you've ruled out major internal motor damage...if it doesn't...then you got some work ahead of ya!

Good luck man, keep us posted.



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hayrookie

09-24-2007 01:52:25




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-23-2007 07:12:42  
I took a couple voltage readings and heres what I got. Battery 12.71 volts. Battery goes to 7.16 volts after holding starter button for 2 seconds. Battery post of solenoid 6.64 volts after holding starter button for 2 seconds. Copper lead from solenoid to starter = 5.54 volts after holding starter button for 2 seconds. Battery 12.51 volts after pushing the starter button these three times for 2 seconds each time. How do I try turning the engine over by hand? Do I remove the starter then try turning flywheel with screwdriver. Not sure how hard it should be to turn over using this method and don't want to break any teeth on the flywheel. Would a good starter show these voltages from trying to turn over a stuck motor or does it look like the problem is the starter or possibly a weak battery. The machine died while trying to lift a heavy load with the front bucket. The battery looks like it is a few years old. I don't have a load tester. There is only one 12 volt battery. Let me know if you have any suggestions on what to do next. THANKS AGAIN to everyone for taking the time to read this and help me out.

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JML755

09-25-2007 11:16:31




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-24-2007 01:52:25  
Put a sockent (or open end wrench) on the crank pulley at the front of the engine to turn by hand. That will tell you if the engine is seized. I've had lots of starter problems on my TLB, mostly caused by poor connections. Remove every cable from the starter, file/sand the cable connectors AND the nuts that hold them to the stud AND the surface where the stud comes out of the starter until they are shiny clean. Re-install and tighten. The key is good, clean, tight connections where there is no arcing. You can show good voltage but current is what the starter motor needs to turn over the engine. And that requires good connections. Also, you can fry a starter by holding the circuit in for too long. The cables heat up real fast. I don't crank mine for more than 10 seconds at a time.

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JACK RAYBURN

09-23-2007 09:34:33




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-23-2007 07:12:42  
FIRST MAKE SURE ALL PRESSURE IS OFF HYDS. THEN TRY TO TURN ENGINE BY HAND. IF IT TURNS THEN LOOK AT STARTER, IF NOT THE ENGINE MORE THEN LIKELY LOCKED UP. COULD BE SEVERAL THINGS, SPUN BEARING, SCORED PISTON. ALSO THE HYD PUMP COULD HAVE LOCKED.



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ferrellnveronica

09-23-2007 09:10:34




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 Re: JD 410 backhoe won't start. Starter??? in reply to hayrookie, 09-23-2007 07:12:42  
Have you tried to use a remote starter switch, also have you load tested the battery .You might also check the voltage between the battery poistive post and solenoid and voltage drop when you try to start.



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