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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

gas vs Diesel Dozer ??

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Jorge A Flores

12-03-2007 08:57:52

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I am looking for a small dozer and have found a JD 4401C , 4 Cyl gas dozer. I need to get one to clear fenclines from cactus and other small growth. No trees over 4 inches in diameter. What can you pass on with knowledge of using a gas Dozer.

It seems cheaper to buy on in the long run then renting one every year to clean fencelines and small fields.

Thanks

Jorge

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Chuck Hilton

12-04-2007 17:05:38

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 08:57:52

I've got all sizes of dozers gas and diesel. Most of the push in a dozer comes from getting the power to the ground (more weight more push). I really like my JD 40C (gas) it gets into tight places without disturbing much else. My 1010 (diesel)runs nice and the reverser is a breese to operate. Allis machines are my favorite I have from HD5 to HD19. All Detroit powered I love the way they run. Also just for the record a 2-53 in a 440 IC is considered naturally aspirated because air box pressure doesn't exceed 14.7 it gets the higher HP from being a 2 stroke. Not generally in machinery but a supercharged Detroit has a turbo feeding the blower. Chuck

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benny2

12-03-2007 17:18:12

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Never get a Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 08:57:52

Never never never get a JD 1010 diesel of any kind just may have been the WORST diesel engine ever made by anyone excepting the MF Standard 23c engine!!
In like size and designs engines, there is little difference in power between gas or diesel. But the BIG difference is the fuel cost, gas will cost almost 4 times that of diesel.

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jdemaris

12-03-2007 17:44:29

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Re: Never get a Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to benny2, 12-03-2007 17:18:12

I'll have to disagree about both engines. 1010 diesels are fine when setup properly. Not as rugged as some other diesels, yet better than some too. The biggest problem they had - and still have - is poor parts support and a lack of knowledge with many people that work on them. They were the first Deeres to ever use the Stanadyne rotary pumps and needed to be set up right. That includes timing, primer-bulb, glow-plugs, etc. I worked on many at three different Deere dealerships and got along fine with them. I still have two.

In regard to the British Standard 23C engine - it was a good little engine and was, and still is, used all over the world - in tractors - even in a few British taxi-cabs. Besides the MF tractor, Allis Chalmers also used it in the ED-40 - a very rugged little engine. My neighbor bought three ED-40s new in early 60s, I still have one of them.

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Cory M

12-03-2007 14:23:47

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 08:57:52

The question is more of what gear you want to work in. My 350 gas will spin the tracks in second gear. The diesel may do it in third but I doubt it. The main difference from what I've heard is the durability of the diesel. My gas has always started right up and had minor problems like fouled plugs and ignition tuneups for the points.
Cory

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jdemaris

12-03-2007 17:50:26

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Cory M, 12-03-2007 14:23:47

Seems you must be comparing your's to a sick diesel. We sold both versions new - and the only difference I could tell is the diesel lugged down better and pushed better, not worse. We always tested them by spinning the tracks in 2nd gear. The diesel version is bigger than the gas - and they both put out the same power. Gas version is 135 cubes, and 38 horse at 2500 RPMs. Diesel is 152 cubes (and later 164), and 39 horse at 2500 RPM (or 44 horse with the 164).

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jdemaris

12-03-2007 17:52:20

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I misread . . . in reply to jdemaris, 12-03-2007 17:50:26

I just realized, I misread you post and it seems we are in agreement. Sorry.

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Mike M

12-03-2007 12:38:34

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 08:57:52

A 440 IC WILL HAVE A 2 CYL. ENGINE.

A 350 or 1010 will be a 4cyl.

If you aren't running one for lots of hours on end a gas may be fine. a definite plus in the winter for starting. If you buy it right and if it doesn't break big time then likely you can use it and then resell it for what you paid.

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Jorge A Flores

12-03-2007 13:27:04

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Mike M, 12-03-2007 12:38:34

Mike, What about overall pushing power, I was led to believe that a gas bulldozer does not have the overall UMPHH factor when it comes to moving items over compared to a Diesel, But like you said, I can buy it for a good price, then sell it if needed after the work is done, Or Maybe keep it for future work on the farm.

Thanks Jorge

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jdemaris

12-03-2007 18:02:02

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 13:27:04

It depends on which brand. A diesel without a supercharger of some sort always has less power than an equal sized gas engine. So, most companies use a bigger diesel to make up for the difference - but not all. With Deere - the 1010 diesel (144 c.i.) is much bigger than the 1010 gas (115 c.i.) engine. With the Deere 350 diesel (152 or 164 c.i.) is bigger again than the gas (135 c.i.).

440 gas engine was just about the same size as the later 1010 gas. It is 113 cubic inches. The diesel version - with the Detroit 2-53 is only 106 cubic inches - but that is because it is supercharged.

Some other companies do NOT do that - like Ford using a 172 gas or diesel in the same tractor, or Hercules in Cletracs, Allis Chalmers in H series crawlers e.g. H3s, HD3s, H4s and HD4s.

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VaTom

12-03-2007 14:52:41

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Jorge A Flores, 12-03-2007 13:27:04

Jorge, I had a gas JD 440, plenty of power. More would not have helped. Something like 8000 lbs, which was too light for my needs. I switched to a tractor twice the weight, much better.

Not that I didn't get a lot of work out of the 440 while it lived here. But I had to push it hard to do what I needed, ended up doing a lot of repairs.

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jdemaris

12-03-2007 12:58:27

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to Mike M, 12-03-2007 12:38:34

350 is a three-cylinder, not four.

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Mike M

12-04-2007 17:15:58

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Re: gas vs Diesel Dozer ?? in reply to jdemaris, 12-03-2007 12:58:27

I don't know what I was thinking ? thanks for straightening me out. Kinda got lost at the bottom of the page. LOL

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