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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

How to do it on a 310A Backhoe????

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TomNTex

01-21-2008 02:07:47




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Really am interested in the idea of getting a hydraulic post digger to mount on the front bucket of my 80-81' 310A backhoe.

How can I plumb into the hydralics for power and what would be required?

I have another 40 acres to fence and corrals to build and would like to think there's a better way than the 3pt digger on the 3020.

Any ideas or suggestions would really be appreciated.

Thanks Tom

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bc

01-25-2008 19:28:41




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
I've looked at the McMillen website. I think they are too pricey for me. They did have a direct drive auger that didn't need gear reduction. After looking there and at ebay, I've come across an Eaton char lynn J series hyd. motor that is used for ag purposes such as augers. They are slow turning.

After looking at the specs for the McMillen, they seem to turn anywhere from 40 to 90+ rpm depending upon the gpm. Motors can be had for under $200 or so. Maybe we can get together and farmroengineer this thing.

I guess I would come off the backhoe bucket bracket with a piece of I beam or square channel and hang the motor. Some of the McMillens didn't have much of a bracket.

I guess also I would use the backhoe bucket hyd hoses to run the motor instead of the front bucket hoses as mentioned earlier.

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Jonathan in MA

01-26-2008 05:54:48




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to bc, 01-25-2008 19:28:41  
The ones I've dealt with usually mount to a coupler adapter such as a Wain-Roy. If I remeber correctly there was some sort of stop/cradle built in to the bracket that would cradle the auger assembly for transport and then when it was rotated back with the bucket cylinder, it would allow it to hang freely.



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JML755

01-25-2008 08:28:44




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
Jonathan,

Thanks for the lead. I looked at the McMillen website. Looks like a perfect setup for a backhoe and I agree about the "make vs buy" in this case. Now.... need to find out how the $$$ shake out. They look pretty pricey.



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bc

01-24-2008 12:51:49




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
I'd like to do the same thing. I have some fencing to do and some corrals to build. Where can you buy a hydraulic post hole auger? Also if you know of any for sale, what size motor does it have, etc. I would rather spend money to buy/make one as opposed to renting a digger everytime I want to do a few posts.

Here is what I know and have done so far. On my front bucket, I have bracket(s) with drilled holes for the bottom of a 3 point hitch and welded pad eyes for the top pin of a 3 point hitch. This is so I can use a 3 point bale mover. I also plan to make and weld a bracket(s) and pad eyes on the hoe bucket or brackets hooked to the hyd cylinder. I'm still trying to decide exactly where it will work best so I can put the bale mover on the hoe and also be able to tie on to a small 3 pt. implement such as a spring tooth or something to drag it around and do a little dirt work. The hitch on the front and back would also allow me to use a 3 pt adjustable angle blade for snow and some grading.

TSC and Orscheln sells the 3 point PTO augers for about $420. I believe the 12" auger is about $120 or so. I talked to a local hydraulic repair company and he suggested a particular hydaulic motor that would probably work which at his (probably high retail price) was about $300. He wouldn't tell me what size and power the motor was although it probably wasn't more that 6" to 8" long and about 4" to 5" across. He said I would need to check my hyd pump gpm as well as the pressure it was putting out to match it up right. He couldn't tell me what HP the motor had, the motor rpm, etc. He said the rpm would vary with the hyd psi and gpm flow rate. It may also need some type of adjusting valve with it to control the rate of turn. We figured it would be easier to install it on the hoe on back and Tee off the loader lines with disconnects going to the back. Putting it back on the hoe would save on the lenght of hyd hose and also prevent having to turn around to reach to operate hoe hydraulics if it was on the front. Maybe that may not matter much, I don't know. Also teeing off the loader hyd lines may require some type of shut off on the lines to keep the loader from moving also.

After looking at a pto driven auger, I figured it would be cheaper and easier to build my own 3 point bracket out of pipe and angle iron (similar to what they have at TSC) to hang a hyd motor from instead of spending over $420 for a 3 pt auger and then not using the pto shaft and right angle gear box.

My IH tractor has a 12 to 17 gpm pumps (rated at new anyway and probably less now) and psi is supposed to be about 1600 psi or so. I haven't flow or psi tested it.

If anyone has an idea on where we can get the right size hyd motor and parts at a decent price then let me know.

Regarding operation: I have used the 3 pt pto driven auger from the back of a tractor and a rented motor and pto driven one that is basically hand held but are very heavy and wear you out after a few holes because you are constantly holding them and pulling them 3' up and out of the ground. We have a lot of heavy clay and gumbo around here. You have to hold the auger back or it will just screw itself into the ground and can't be lifted out. You basically have to reverse it and screw it back out. The way to do it is to set the auger on the ground but only give it a few inches of slack so it doesn't screw itself in. Allow it to dig so much at a time (3" to 12") and then pick it up and allow the dirt to clean off the auger before going for more. After the recent freeze and power outage, I watch the power companies dig power pole holes. Their boom and auger trucks do not have a whole lot of lifting power. They would drill a little, pick it up, have a swamper knock dirt/clay/mud off the auger and then take another bite. It was a slow process to keep from sticking their big augers. I also noticed that their augers don't turn a very fast rpm. Just guessing maybe 100 to 200 rpm for the auger. Does anyone know what rpm the pto mounted augers turn?

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JML755

01-24-2008 08:32:46




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
Roy,

I've considered doing that to my Ford 755 backhoe using quick couplers as you indicate. Questions: Do you mount the auger on a pivot so it swings and will plumb itself? How hard is it to keep the auger feeding? I would think the boom and crowd cylinders would keep it from "digging" unless you used them to lower it as you go. If so, I would think that there is risk breaking the auger and/or motor with a miscue at the controls. Is it hard to keep it drilling straight?
thanks,

jerry

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Jonathan in MA

01-24-2008 17:22:16




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to JML755, 01-24-2008 08:32:46  
They are generally free swinging/hanging by one pivot point. Do a search for McMillen augers... thats a good name.. The are usually fed down by using the boom/arm controls.. without exerting much down pressure. As far as someone saying you need a "motor" spool in the valve.. Thats not true. They are designed to work with a standard valve. Its a slow speed motor with a gear reduction drive and they need to be able to run in reverse to get it back out if an obstruction is encountered. Also there was a post about "building your own". Just bite the bullet and get one already created instead of reinventing the wheel. The trial and error period required wont save you any money. You'll spend 6 months building it and a week using it.

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MSM

01-21-2008 14:04:54




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
You are better off installing it on the backhoe. It gives you a great range of movement to keep the holes plumb and in line. Depending on your post spacing you can drill 3 holes from one position. It also allows you to reach hard to drive to areas like wet spots or under low branches. You need to add a motor spool to the valve bank, or try a salvage yard for it and the plumbing,alot of those hoes had auxillary hydraulics plumbed up the rear boom.

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Roy Suomi

01-21-2008 09:17:10




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
I've done that with the backhoe before..You can drill 2 or more holes without moving the machine..I installed it for a mobile home park..Hosed it to the bucket circuit with quick couplers..Has forward and reverse with the flick of the wrist..



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Jonathan in mA

01-21-2008 08:08:22




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
I've seen them mounted on the backhoe with a coupler/bucket set-up. Or you could remove the bucket and mount it directly to the backhoe arm. Then quick couplers are installed in the bucket lines at the cylinder. Disconnect the bucket lines and couple them to the post hole auger and use the bucket function to operate the auger. The auger doesnt use or need the bucket cylinder.



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Lauro Salinas

01-21-2008 06:30:52




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 Re: How to do it on a 310A Backhoe???? in reply to TomNTex, 01-21-2008 02:07:47  
depending on what kind of fence, I use T posts and drive them in with front end loader, and put one post or pipe in every 120 ft in cement.
I put 5 miles up of game proof fence (8feet). ground is hard sometimes but rather than push down



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