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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Detroit Diesel injectors

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Thomas R. Spiva

02-15-2008 11:20:05




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Well, I figured out that the bolt for the hold down clamp on the injector of my 3-53 came out and the injector started moving which caused two fuel lines to break.
The brass injector sleeve either moved up or was never in correctly to be begin with. I couldn't get the sleeve all the way back in and since I figured it was messed up anyway, I bolted the injector back down, replaced the lines, changed the oil, and fired it back up.
It starts perfect even in 10 below F. weather but still is slow to come up to full RPM when I push it to full throttle, in my opinion.
I know the sleeve needs to be replaced and everything set up and timed again, but how do you get the sleeve out and put a new one in?
Does it have any sealant used with it when its being installed, what holds it in, just the injector? This is an old 1957 Michigan loader.
No oil consumption at all, and some white smoke when the engine backs down going down a grade. (since putting it back together, didn't do that prior to the fuel line problem.)
Any advice welcome.

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luapp

02-16-2008 18:10:29




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
how did we get away from the detroit queston? another place you could be getting fuel in the engin is if the seal on the fuel pump is bad and the weep holes are pluged. it drives on the blower.



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Thomas R. Spivak

02-16-2008 18:49:33




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to luapp, 02-16-2008 18:10:29  
Yeah we kind of wandered off topic I guess.
Ok, I think I figured that fuel could get past the fuel pump seals and I can handle that, but what are the weep holes and where are they?



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DYNAHATER

02-16-2008 11:29:18




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
I had a Dynahoe with a 3-53. After a welding mishap :( on the exhaust, I had to yank the head and in the meantime I rebuilt most of the components. Anyhow, a DD dealer sold me new rebuilt injectors and boy did that engine run and start well above 40 degrees. He told me I was getting a better injector. Well, it ran great all summer, but after that, it never started in the cold without allot of ether. I assume that the tired engine had low compression and the upgraded injector didn"t like that!

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430WLPG

02-15-2008 18:01:15




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
That temp sensor in the back is what tells the controler when to work. And the last I checked they were $98.00



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jimvw

02-15-2008 17:04:30




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
Are you lososing any coolant, Been a long time since I worked on a 53 series. Quite often when the injector sits in a brass tube the pupose of the tube is to seal against a coolant loss. Some engines require the head to be removed to install new injector tubes. Honestly not sure about the tubes used on the 53 series, but somehow you are going to have to get a 53 series manual or talk to a Detroit Diesel man.

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dougskis

02-15-2008 17:03:24




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
The injector sleeve in the head seals coolant. There is an oring at the top of the sleeve and and sleeve is swedge in the bottom. (has to be done with the head removed) You could be burning coolant and causing white smoke. You came run the engines with the valve cover off. Will make a mess. Lay some rags over rocker arms. (have worked on alot of these) BEEEEE CAREFULL!!! The fuel jumper lines torque to 156 in lbs.

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jdemaris

02-15-2008 12:13:26




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 11:20:05  
I've got one question. You say your 3-53 starts perfectly at 10 below zero F? I've worked on many, and still own a few, and I've never heard of one starting that well - not even when brand new. That includes 2-53s, 3-53s, 2-71s, 3-71s, etc. The two biggest complaints we got with Detroits was poor cold starting and low to no oil pressure at hot-idle.

Do you actually mean starting on its own, or is it with ether and/or block heater?

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ShawnCol

02-18-2008 15:04:34




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to jdemaris, 02-15-2008 12:13:26  
I've got a 1949 Allis Chalmers HD5 with a 2-71 Detroit, I have been concerned for some time with the "low to no oil pressure at warm idle" problem. When I start her off she will have 40-50psi, but after half an hour she will be down to 10+/-. About this time I get a little nervious and shut her down. When you say that this is one of the regular complaints, does that mean I shouldn't be as concerned or is a violent death imminent? Thanks, Shawn

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jdemaris

02-18-2008 16:01:51




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to ShawnCol, 02-18-2008 15:04:34  
Just about every Detroit I've ever been around was the same way, even with a newly rebuilt engine. My HD5 has a hot-idle pressure of close to zero. I stuck a 10 PSI test gauge into it once it read hot at low idle at around 2 PSI. Same with both my 3-53s. I've heard the same from many people with Detroits, and it doesn't seem to be a problem with blowing engines.



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Thomas R. Spivak

02-15-2008 13:09:22




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to jdemaris, 02-15-2008 12:13:26  
No block heater, one little spurt of ether into the plug hole on the blower. Hit the starter and bang, away it goes, sits and idles purrrrrfect.
When as hot as it gets in this weather (cold) the oil pressure drops to 25-30 with 30w diesel oil.
I will admit that prior to working on it, it was harder to start. Ran it yesterday and today and I suspect that fuel is still getting into the oil.
Wondering if I can take the valve cover off and run it to see whats leaking?

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jdemaris

02-15-2008 13:19:10




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 13:09:22  
Ok, now I understand. Ether makes a big difference with any diesel. I've never seen a Detroit 2 stroke that would start below 20 degrees F without the ether or a block heater.



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Thomas R. Spivak

02-15-2008 13:24:47




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to jdemaris, 02-15-2008 13:19:10  
My ford truck hardly starts in summer without ether, thats another story.
Once this thing has been run in the morning, it will start all day with no ether. Seems pretty good to me. If I could resolve this fuel issue.
I'm learning more about Det. Diesel than I had hoped to. Ah, the joys of old iron.



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jdemaris

02-15-2008 13:29:25




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 13:24:47  
That Ford with the International Harverster diesel is a completely different design and shouldn't be using ether. The Detroit is direct-injected, the Ford 6.9 and 7.3 is indirect-injected, unless you've got a 1994 1/2 and later Powerstroke. I've got several Ford diesel trucks and they are all great starters as long as the glow-plugs are working correctly.



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Thomas R. Spivak

02-15-2008 13:40:54




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to jdemaris, 02-15-2008 13:29:25  
It's a 1986 6.9 and yes the glow plug timer is not right.
Even when cold it stays on for about 3-4 seconds.
I replaced it and it does the same thing, so I just plug it in when I know I'll need it.
I may just put in a switch to run the relay manually.



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jdemaris

02-15-2008 14:06:35




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 13:40:54  
My 85 6.9 is one of the best starting diesels I've got. My 92 Dodge Cummins is better. Your truck ought to energize the plugs on a cold morning for well over 10 seconds. If you've alreadly replaced the controller, seems you've got other issues. As I recall, it senses current draw and won't work properly if some of the plugs are burnt out. If you change over to a manual push-button, make sure you use dual-coil self-regulating glow-plugs or you'll burn them out. The 6.9 did not come with them OEM until 1987.

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Thomas R. Spivak

02-15-2008 14:37:09




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to jdemaris, 02-15-2008 14:06:35  
There's no way they have ever been on for ten seconds, all the plugs were replaced before I got the truck a year ago and they have all been tested since. I wondered if the temp sensor at the back of the engine is throwing a bad signal?
Thanks for your advice on the newer plugs.



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jdemaris

02-16-2008 05:57:24




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 Re: Detroit Diesel injectors in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-15-2008 14:37:09  
As I recall, the pre 1987 trucks do no use a separate temp sensor for the glow-plugs - it's built into the controller. Do you know what plugs were put in? Several makes of glow plugs that parts stores will sell you for your 6.9 are absolute garbage - especailly Autolite and Champions which tend to burn up fast. If you buy from Ford, you will get reboxed German Beru dual-coil plugs - which are one of the best around. Ford and Motorcraft ZD1A or E5TZ12A342B. The best plugs cost $8-$9 each.
You buy a set of 8 new dual-coil plugs along with a new controller as a kit for $133. You can buy brand new controllers for $50 - $70, e.g. HDC905 at:

Link

http://shop.dieselpage.com/addtocart.sc;jsessionid=2304B829108025FEF9012F8C498E6622.qscweb21

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