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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel

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Thomas R. Spiva

02-19-2008 12:12:02




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Well the saga of my 3-53 continues as I have changed the oil for the 2 nd time and still have fuel getting in oil.
No leaks under valve cover that I can see, pump seal is good after taking off and pressure testing.
No coolant in oil or oil in coolant.
Machines seems to start and run very well.
Any ideas are welcome.
HELP!




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bighead

02-23-2008 14:24:11




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to 135 Fan, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  

Thomas R. Spivak said: (quoted from post at 11:13:59 02/23/08) I have unhooked the fuel lines and pressurized the system, the leak is bad and it is around the injector where it goes in the sleeve. At least now I know what it is.

Now I have to figure out how to replace the sleeve.

Thanks to everyone for their input. This was a tough one.


Glad to hear that you found where the leak is coming from. I'm no expert on the 2-cycle detroits... WAY before my time for the most part. But I don't think the injector sleeve is going to cause the injector to leak fuel. I think the injector itself is leaking.

I seem to remember that you had some problem with the injector sleeve a while back. And for what it's worth, the head has to be pulled to replace them. You may need to replace the injector sleeves and re-seal that injector. Maybe all of them, while you're at it.

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Thomas R. Spivak

02-23-2008 10:13:59




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  
I have unhooked the fuel lines and pressurized the system, the leak is bad and it is around the injector where it goes in the sleeve. At least now I know what it is.
Now I have to figure out how to replace the sleeve.
Thanks to everyone for their input. This was a tough one.



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bighead

02-23-2008 08:25:24




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to Old Magnet, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  
Lots of parts stores sell ultraviolet dye for a/c systems. I wouldn't try mixing that with fuel... but I've seen cheap ultraviolet flashlights for sale in the same section. Never used one, but I imagine it'd work for you.



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bighead

02-23-2008 08:22:57




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to pmh, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  

Thomas R. Spivak said: (quoted from post at 13:12:02 02/19/08) Well the saga of my 3-53 continues as I have changed the oil for the 2 nd time and still have fuel getting in oil.

No leaks under valve cover that I can see, pump seal is good after taking off and pressure testing.

No coolant in oil or oil in coolant.

Machines seems to start and run very well.

Any ideas are welcome.

HELP!


You need to get a black light and some ultraviolet dye. If you call around to some good auto parts stores, you can probably get a black light for under $30. You can get ultraviolet oil dye (works fine in fuel, too) at a Cummins, Detroit, or Deere dealer- it’s fairly cheap.

I mix it double-strength- enough for 10 gallons, mixed into a 5 gallon bucket of fuel. Run some rubber hoses so that the engine is sucking dyed fuel out of the bucket, AND the return line is dumping back into the bucket. Then run it for a few minutes. Remove the valve cover, shine the black light around, and see where the fuel is coming out. I’ve done this on lots of engines, and it works great.

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chip man

02-19-2008 22:57:27




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  
There is a calibrated orfice in the return line fitting where the line attatches to the head. This restriction is neccasary for the pump to build pressure in the fuel galleries for the correct filling of the injecters. The injector must fit the copper sleeve correctly or it may crack, which can allow coolant into the cylinder or combustion gasses into the cooling system. this would be accompanied with a misfire. If the injector is loose this will happen, probably sooner than later. When checking for fuel leaks under the rocker cover, I will run the engine with the cover on until it's at full operating temp, shut off and remove the cover and wait about an hour and inspect every fuel pipe and fitting very carefully. There will be residual engine oil at every fitting, if a fitting has no oil, or it appears to be clean oil you have found the leak. Also you can lightly tap each fuel pipe with a screwdriver, if one sounds differant from the rest it is because fuel has leaked out.

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NC Wayne

02-19-2008 15:25:40




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-19-2008 12:12:02  
Just getting into this discussion so I don't know the particulars yet such as how much fuel your seeing and in what length of time. Still a Detroit is a pretty simple engine so it can't be coming but from a couple of places. First off the fuel pump isn't likely to put fuel into the crankcase. There is an open space between the fluid/fuel seal and the oil seal to allow any leakage to weep out into the open where it would be visable. Fuel could get into the oil through a crack in the head from a fuel passage to somewhere in contact with the oil but that really isn't likely. Can't say it will never happen but have never seen or heard about it happening lie that. Next are a couple of places under the valve cover where you could get leakage. Starting at the head, there's where the fuel risers screw into the head, then either end of the lines, a crack anywhere in one of the lines, where the fitting the line attaches to screws into the injector body, or finally somewhere on the injector body itself. Like I said I don't know how much fuel your seeing in teh oil but if has to be comming from one of these places unless someone is literally pouring it in by hand. Try unhooking and capping off the return side of the fuel system and then unhook the pressure side from the pump. Hook into the line going to the head and pressurize the fuel system with compressed air to around 60 psi. You should see air bubbles escaping the system where the leak is. Good luck and let us know what you find.

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Thomas R. Spivak

02-19-2008 15:47:38




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to NC Wayne, 02-19-2008 15:25:40  
I will try your test as I have run it without the valve cover and see no leaks and I was going to check the return line for an obstruction anyway.
I have a previous post about a page back that outlines what I have done, the problem starting with an inject clamp bolt coming out and letting the injector come out of the sleeve a bit, that caused two broken lines.
The injector now fits a bit slopy in the sleeve but I don't know the effect of this on performance or relationship to leaking.

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dieselpaul

02-22-2008 16:54:54




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 Re: Fuel in oil on Detroit Diesel in reply to Thomas R. Spivak, 02-19-2008 15:47:38  

as others said, i don't know how much fuel is getting in oil, but if problem started when injector loosened up, i'd look harder there; since you say fit in tube is ''sloppy'' maybe its not sealing good & blowing a little unburnt fuel by. theres so much going on without cover with engine running that even if its pumping a little compression, you might not find it---change fittings that jumper lines go to in head.

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