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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

cat. pony missfire

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C walter

04-04-2008 17:20:59




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I have a D8 pony motor that will repeatedly backfire through the caburetor. The engine or magneto have not been into. The magneto rotor dose have a ring of carbon on it. Could this be my firing problem?




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C walter

04-07-2008 15:54:59




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 Re: cat. pony missfire in reply to C walter, 04-04-2008 17:20:59  
Thanks for all your replies. The next day I gotup with an old cat mechanic from the 60s' who was a wealth of information. He checked the timming and pulled the mag. Foundout the impulse was not working right. Ajusted the impulse mechanism to fire #1 fire, #2 fire, #3 no fire, #4 no fire and back to #1. Now she runs like a top. The Cat dozer is a D8 13A.



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AJ.

04-05-2008 18:35:55




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 Re: cat. pony missfire in reply to C walter, 04-04-2008 17:20:59  
Popping back through the carburetor could be bad inlet valve seating,timing,dirty or badly worn points,cracked cap,bad plug lead or plug,or bad gas,check the compression on the suspect cylinder first off and then if its ok it is the spark or carb.
AJ



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Billy NY

04-05-2008 08:04:30




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 Re: cat. pony missfire in reply to C walter, 04-04-2008 17:20:59  
Is this the 2 cyl vertical piston type starting engine, older type, they changed when the 13A, 14A, 15A and 8H's came out in the 50's. What serial number tractor is this ?

If an older type, (even if the newer type, probably a timing or ignition issue) Hector is right, sounds like a timing issue, being familiar with that older type starting engine and if that is what you have:


Pull the mag, #1 piston is close to the radiator, for reference, pull the side cover on the starting engine clutch housing, to expose the flywheel, there is a mark on it, you need that to line up with a mark on the housing, while #1 piston is coming on the compression stroke. I used a cork in the spark plug hole, you can also hear the air pushing out without the cork.

Make sure the mag is hot, good blue spark from both wires, you can get a lop sided spark, one hot, the other weak, clean the contacts on the cap, and make sure the impulse coupling is in good working order, if you need to have it rebuilt, make sure it's done, I think the old Eisemann's can be beefed up better than factory, these like hot spark and plenty of fuel to run right, don't use champion plugs and make sure to use solid conductor plug wires not modern carbon type or whatever they are. I have used bare copper in a pinch even, don't reccommend that, but it worked great, had a vehicle stuck and needed this tractor to run, I'll bet any good solid copper conductor would work, but best to get the correct plug wires and connections, you can make your own from bulk very easily, just crimp on the connectors and plug em in.


With the starting engine timed to have the #1 piston coming up on the compression stroke and those flywheel timing marks set to line up, a little before is ok as long as it is on the rise before compression, you can re-install the magneto, but you need to check it's firing order.

Here is what I did to do that; I held it in my hand and turned it by hand until I knew that the weights and springs inside were tensing up to fire a spark, made sure the first spark = wire to #1 plug, followed by sparking the 2nd hole for wire #2. In short I test fired it in my hand, it gives you a small jolt, to be safe you can bench fire it and not absorb the spark just ground a wire out so you can see the spark, use a test light etc, it's not that bad of a jolt actually just in your hand, but I won't recommend anyone doing that regardless, it's still electricity and you should always respect it no matter what.


Knowing that the mag is now going to spark, when that #1 piston comes up, flywheel marks going to align at the same time, you should be able to install the mag so the slot lines up in the coupling on the starting engine, and that's it, bolt it together and it should run. I was stumped by this, did not have any information to help, it took days to figure it out, but I never forgot it after. The only thing I was unsure about, but think is true, is that the mag fires #1 then #2, was unsure when it skipped in the sequence, turning it by hand will tell you that, I forget now, must be as #1 is coming back down, #2 is coming up on compression stroke, so the mag seemed to fire 1-2 consecutively, then it skipped, that I don't recall just that after I installed it knowing the firing sequence, it worked. The servicemans's reference book does lack some information, like telling you which piston is #1 and a few other bits of information, so what I did still remains clear in my mind, and it fired right off, this was '01, took me 3 days to figure it out, and a lot of backpuffing through the carb before I finally figured it out.

Others have mentioned having the plug wires crossed, just switch em over, so it's good to know the firing sequence of the mag, match that correctly to the compressions stroke of #1 and you are good.


Keep the oil clean in these, splash lube type, check to make sure that oil has NO gasoline in it, it can leak down through the Zenith carb, I drain my bowl right after the diesel fires, using a petcock installed in the drain plug. If the oil is not clean, change it out. While working on the one described, I left the fuel on by mistake and it filled the crankcase, overflowed the dipstick. If you don't, that little flathead 2 cyl. will toss a rod or fail quickly, thinned oil is a bad thing for these.

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hector gemme

04-05-2008 02:07:48




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 Re: cat. pony missfire in reply to C walter, 04-04-2008 17:20:59  
You should have bad timing magneto.



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