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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Case CK Trigger FInger Boom

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Skyhawk Greg

05-09-2008 10:00:24

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Hi,

I have a Case 580CK that has a boom jerkiness issue. With VERY timid movements of the control, the boom will work smoothly, but anything that resembles a normal control movement input, is greeted with an almost uncontrolled lurch of the boom. This happens both upward and downward. Loaded or unloaded. The D27565 flow restrictor is installed in the proper place and facing the proper direction.

I am going to install a Parker variable flow regulator in each of the hydraulic lines that go to the boom cylinder. The regulators are rated at 3000 psi and 20 gpm, and I am going to install them at the cylinder ends of the hoses (not at the control valve end of the hoses). These flow regulators regulate flow in one direction, and freely pass oil in the other direction. The question that I have, is, does anybody see any advantage in having them both regulate FROM the cylinder, or having them both regulate TO the cylinder? By this, I mean, should the red arrows be the regulated side (high pressure oil going into the cylinder) and the black arrows be the freeflow side (oil that is trying to leave the cyliner), or vice versa? I can think of advantages each way.

Thank you,
Greg

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Charlie in Southern

06-05-2008 07:03:43

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to Skyhawk Greg, 05-09-2008 10:00:24

Is there any chance that the hydraulic pump has been changed on this machine? It sounds like your making way more flow than what the machine is supposed to have.

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Skyhawk Greg

06-05-2008 07:52:11

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to Charlie in Southern, 06-05-2008 07:03:43

Charlie, Although there is a chance that it has been replaced, all the other cylinders work nice and smoothly - even a bit slow by today's standards. Thanks for the thought. Greg

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steve n carol

06-05-2008 16:00:09

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to Skyhawk Greg, 06-05-2008 07:52:11

Greg, Just a chance thought I have, I'll run it by you. I do believe these control valves are 'open centers'. Perhaps if the boom spool valve body is cracked, or a 'chip' is broken off of the bore face, or the spool itself is incorrect, bent, worn, or damaged, it might allow more fluid transfer than it should. resulting in exaggerated movements... just a thought. I understand not wanting to 'open it up'... be careful...sl

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skyhawk greg

06-06-2008 09:51:18

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to steve n carol, 06-05-2008 16:00:09

Thanks for the thought, although you are correct, that I would prefer to avoid taking the assembly apart. Greg

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AJ.

05-10-2008 12:41:24

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to Skyhawk Greg, 05-09-2008 10:00:24

That machine is a bit dated for my memory but for what I can remember is that there was one restrictor on the boom up,it was fitted in the valve block under the adaptor for the pipe that raises the boom,the purpose of it was to stop the boom dropping too fast when lowering,make sure that there is only the one restrictor and that it is in the bottom port of the valve,i.e the boom up pipe,look at all the steel tubing to make sure none is bent or closed up,brackets around flexible hoses can restrict the flow too if they are too tight,there were thousands of those machines that worked without any extra valves so I can"t see why your should need them.
AJ

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Skyhawk Greg

05-11-2008 10:34:43

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to AJ., 05-10-2008 12:41:24

AJ -

Yes, the boom drop restrictor is in the bottom port, and facing the correct direction. I even bought another one and tried it, just in case the one I had was the wrong size. The problem I am having goes BOTH ways - up and down. The tractor sounds strained when I use the boom as well (either way).

Thanks,
Greg

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NCWayne

05-09-2008 15:16:40

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to Skyhawk Greg, 05-09-2008 10:00:24

I don"t understand why your having the problem your having, never heard of anything like that before on a backhoe. In answer to your question regulate going to, not away from, the cylinders. I say this because the two sides of the cylinder have different volumes for the same amount of movement. If you try to regulate the flow going away your basically regulating more by holding back on the cylinder and not so much by controlling the flow into it. Using round numbers let"s say if you put 8 gallons of oil in the bottom end free flowing it"s gonna cause 6 gallons to try to exit the top, under pressure, through a restriction. First the restriction is gonna cause a higher pressure than you"d typically see on the return oil which will require a higher pressure on the other side of the cylinder than usual for the same movement. That in and of itself isn"t a real problem. The problem is pressurized oil going through an orifice and dropping pressure while doing no work causes heat. Now if your putting the 6 gallons on the rod end free flow and trying to push 8 gallons out the other end, once again you"ve got the same problem you had before except this time you"ve got 8 gallons flowing through that orifice. Think about it using these numbers and you"ve got 14 gallons of oil under pressure going through a restriction, doing no work, every stroke that cylinder makes. Seen like this your gonna be throwing alot of extra heat into that system with every stroke of the cylinder. If you regulate going in your actually regulating flow and pressure will be the same on both sides of the orifice because the regulated side is "deadheaded" when working the cylinder, not returning back to the tank. With no pressure drop across the orifice and work being done with the regulated flow you have very minimal, if any extra heat building up in the system. Good luck.

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Skyhawk Greg

05-10-2008 10:26:00

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Re: Case CK Trigger FInger Boom in reply to NCWayne, 05-09-2008 15:16:40

NCWayne,

I have only heard of this type of problem one or two other times before also. I have eliminated the cylinder as being the source of the difficulty, and I don't want to rebuild the control valve as this machine is only used on the property, and once you take one thing apart, everything else seems to need taken apart also. Adjusting the boom down and boom up secondary relief valves seem to be the only external adjustment on these control valves, and from the service manual, it appears that if this is done, the overall boom pressure will be reduced as well.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Greg

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