Bottom roller Lube ?

The original rollers with button-head grease fittings were lubed at first with gear-oil, and later with special "track and roller" grease when it became available. The point is - these rollers HAD grease fittings and the seals inside were a different design then the newer and aftermarket "sealed" rollers.

From what the guy described - he's got sealed rollers and nothing in the manual applies to them. In fact, they are not supposed to be pressurized with any sort of grease gun - they are only gravity-filled and with a light oil - usually something along the line of combination transmission and hydraulic oil.

Also, you state "The point is - these rollers HAD grease fittings and the seals inside were a different design then the newer and aftermarket "sealed" rollers."

Without seeing them and knowing the complete history of the machine, how do you know they had grease fittings? Maybe they're replacement models that came with the plugs that are in them now? The rollers on my 1960's international came stock with oil filled rollers, and the rollers had removeable plugs in them. They are supposed to be periodically lubricated as described above (as per the manual). I suspect Berco etc were/are selling similar rollers, and probably not just for IH machines.

"From what the guy described - he's got sealed rollers and nothing in the manual applies to them. In fact, they are not supposed to be pressurized with any sort of grease gun - they are only gravity-filled and with a light oil - usually something along the line of combination transmission and hydraulic oil."

Again, I have rollers that sound just like rich's. Removable plug and heavy gear oil is intended to be injected into them. So not sure how you presumptively know that rich's are different in this sense and are either "sealed" (oxymoronish as that is with removeable plugs on them) and/or require a thin weight oil like hydraulic or trans oil instead of gear oil.

Bottomline is what would you have rich do? Are you suggesting he should not at least attempt to lubricate the rollers? As I said before I do not believe there is significant risk in filling them with gear oil. I think there is significant risk in simply assuming they are sealed and should not be serviced as specified in rich's "book." (and my book too)

Later, Allis began installing factory-sealed rollers, which had no grease fitting - only a plug with an allen head. They were permanently filled with oil, and sealed with the plug. The plug was installed with an air wrench, and could normally not be taken out by hand. There was no need to lube them; if the oil ran out, the seals were worn out, and you were supposed to get a new roller. The seals were completely different than the greaseable units. The original seals were a one-piece, bellows-type seal, that were prone to being blown from not allowing the air to escape when lubing. The latter type - which is the only type now available - were two-piece machined rings, sealed with o-rings; they would allow the air past and settle back into place when lubing. I am not sure what type of seal was used in the permanent rollers - I would almost assume a double-chevron setup - but they were designed to only leak if the roller axle and bushing were worn out.

I have never seen an after-market (Berco, Italitrac, etc.) roller for an HD3 that was greaseable, only the permanent rollers. You can always tell the permanent - they have plugs in the end. I know I've not seen everything, and I don't have the rollers in front of me; but, my advice to Rich would be to check the rollers for ANY slop of ANY kind first. If they are tight, I (personally) wouldn't fool with them.

If Rich wants to try removing the plug from one or two to see what's in it, that's up to him. I don't see that it will hurt anything.

I understand what you are saying about the rollers on your IH - some of the older ones were to be filled with oil periodically through the plug in the end; but, IH and Allis rollers are designed differently. As previously stated, the only rollers I've seen for the HD3 were either greaseable (from Allis), or permanently sealed and lubed (from Allis, and from after-market).

My advice would be to check them for wear; if they are tight, run them.

My $.02 worth,
Dale(MO)

Dale(MO)