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450D
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normal starting?

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bsinn

10-11-2001 17:32:05




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I've looked at a 450D for sale and had never seen the gas-start before. It seemed to require a bit of messing around with the choke to run on the gas side and then missed on the diesel side, but not bad.

Is this normal on for a gas-start or is she all worn out? What should I be looking for? (The TA is working fine). Any help would be appreciated.




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Haas

10-12-2001 07:00:59




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 Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to bsinn, 10-11-2001 17:32:05  
I have an MD. Also spend many hours on one on the Farm back in the 50s. As Red Rider says, the only control on the engine on the gas side is the choke. You have to fiddle with it when you start it to keep the thing running. Usually by the time you have the choke all the way open, it's time to switch to diesel. Sometimes there is a little miss when you first switch to diesel, especially if the engine is not warm enough. The miss should clear up quickly.

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Red Rider

10-11-2001 21:39:02




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 Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to bsinn, 10-11-2001 17:32:05  
I have three tractors that have this I-H start on gas and switch to diesel. The choke is the only way you control the amount of air you let into the engine when starting. The way I start mine is, I have the choke all the way closed when I hit the starter. As soon as it fires I open it to about the half way point. After about 30 seconds I can open the choke all the way. The should no missing on the gas cycle. If the engine misses on the gas cycle then I think you need to check plugs, points, plug wires and maybe timing on the gas side. None of my tractors miss after I switch to diesel. I have a TD9, a 600 International and a 400 Farmall. I have never had a head problem. Just make sure that the radiator is clean inside and out and you keep it full of water. Any engine should not be turned off right after working it hard. I always let them run for 5 minutes or so to cool. According to the owners manuel switching the engine back to gas for 10 to 15 seconds before turning it off is suppose to clear the combustion chambers of diesel fuel and aid in starting the next morning, but I could never tell any difference. One thing for sure though is that once you have shut down the engine make sure you put the lever back on the diesel cycle or you could warp the needle valves that seal off the gas pre combustion chambers. Those Diesel engine just sound better under load than the gas engines. A lot cheaper to run to.

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Roger

10-11-2001 19:18:33




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 Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to bsinn, 10-11-2001 17:32:05  
I recently restored a Farmall MD which has the same engine as the 450D. The 450D should start on gasoline like a gasoline 450 except for there is no throttle so it runs at a fixed speed. Parts are hard to come by for that engine including the carburator and injector pump. If you need to have the injector pump rebuilt it can cost $1000. There is a lot of complexity to the engine because it can run on gas and diesel. I spent a lot of time adjusting linkages, setting the timing on the injector pump (trial and error), etc. When I was done it is a great machine to drive, especially when you switch to the diesel mode. This engine was quite a design by the old International Harvester engineers of the late 1930's/early 1940's. Roger

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ralph

10-11-2001 18:05:02




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 Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to bsinn, 10-11-2001 17:32:05  
bsinn: The gas start diesel was a very good engine back in its day. When new and on a standard engineering day of 59 degrees it was intended to be warm enough to switch after about one minute. Slight diesel mis should be cleared up within another minute or less. They also started very good at cold temps when new. After about 50 years it probably needs some work. They were prone to head cracks because people did not let them cool befor shutdown which should be going back to gas and then electrical switch off and compression release back to diesel. They are expensive to rebuild compared to gas engines. I prefer the diesel but I am biased. Hope this helps a bit. R.

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bsinn

10-11-2001 18:07:46




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 Re: Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to ralph, 10-11-2001 18:05:02  
I'm going to take a more detailed second look tomorrow. What should the compression be?



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ralph

10-11-2001 21:20:44




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 Re: Re: Re: 450D - normal starting? in reply to bsinn, 10-11-2001 18:07:46  
bsinn: You asked about compression? On gas its about 6 to 1 or 100lbs. On diesel its more like 16 or 17 to one or 250. Roger is right about high cost of parts so asking someone who has had repair experiance with this model may pay. Main bearings alone are suppose to be $500 uninstalled for the earlier ones. Tell us more after ya get a second look. R.



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