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FACT OR FICTION??????????????

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BIG JOHN

05-19-2002 19:11:06

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Bob M. hope you or anyone else can help with this question.

Yesterday at a farm sale a local said that he had changed many 6 volt systems to 12 volt by only changing the voltage regulator from a 6 volt to a 12 volt and changine the light bulbs. I questioned him some but he stuck with this.

I'm not the brightest bulb in the string when it comes to electrical systems but his claim seems hard to believe.

What would happen if you did take a 6 volt system and change the voltage regulator to a 12 volt regulator???? Would you get 12volt output from the generator????? What about the coil, what would happen?????

Once again FACT OR FICTION????? ????? ?????

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Easyyirv

05-20-2002 18:19:44

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

I went thru several false starts on this and I wan to be brief:
1) When the tractor is running at pto speed, the generator showed 13 volts. 2) Put a 12v regulator on. works fine.
3) run the tractor for 3 hours witha 5 foot bushhog in 2nd gear. The generator doesn't ever get warm. 4) Starts as fast as my new GMC truck.
5) Changed to neg. grnd. 12 bulbs. 6) I get a lot more fun out of the tractor, not to mention work.
7) Apparently a 12 gen has more windings. But these old tractors are so overbuilt, it will never matter. It also is hard to tell I have converted it until it starts! Good luck & don't be afraid to experiment. This stuff is hard to hurt. Irv

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dick

05-20-2002 10:46:05

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

This question comes up often on this forum, and the answer appears to vary mostly according to the "electrical religion" of the writer. Some of us do have fully functional 12V systems which use the original 6V starters and generators; but others tell us that a 6V generator won't function in a 12V system. Hmmmm.

Based upon my experience, I'd either use a ballast resister in front of the original 6V coil, or use a new 12V coil. Doubling the voltage across the original coil quadruples the heat produced in the coil (V-squared/R, where R is constant), and coils get hot enough already.

Otherwise, changing the voltage regulator and bulbs should be all you need. Many conversions switch from positive-ground to negative-ground, which may be something else for you to consider.

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cannonball

05-20-2002 06:18:05

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

we used to put 8 volt batteries on tractors that had 6 v systems and turn up voltage reg...so yes they will turn up how high i don't know

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Merlin

05-20-2002 05:08:25

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

I'm loke you not knowing much about electrical stuff, but I guess I've had a couple dozen generators from antique cars converted to 12 volt. The generator shop I use charges $45.00. I just buy a 12 volt regulator, a ballast resistor to protect the coil and points, change the lights to 12 volt bulbs, and presto, I have a 12 volt system. I left the horn as 6 volts and you could hear it a mile away. As for as my tractors, I always use an alternator to convert them.

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buck

05-19-2002 20:08:28

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

Some fact mostly fiction. Most 6v generators are capable of say 7 to 8 volts max but there are those that are capable of 12+ or may be abe to be adjusted to 12+ Now most 12v generators are capable of 16 to 18 volts.Many 6v generators can be rewound to be full 12v generators and take full advantage of a 12v regulator.

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joe

05-19-2002 19:53:58

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

It is FICTION!!!! A 6 volt generator will only pump 6 volts. The regulator, to be correct, should really be called an amperage regulator. You need a new generator, regulator, bulbs, battery, and resistor for the ignition. The reason that 706's, etc, have two 6 volts is that when you hook them in series, you get 12 volts - you string two sets of 3 cells together to get 6 cells- the same number as a 12 volt battery. You definitely need a 12 volt generator for a conversion.

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joe

05-19-2002 19:53:58

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

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Ace Schrunk

05-19-2002 19:38:53

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

I to changed maney 6V to 12 volt, 12 regulator battery gennerator bulbs put resistor on coil or you will burn the points not much difference in starters mostly, on 400 450 with the firecrator pistons, mostly did not help much should have had bigger starter a good gear reduction starter would have been better. 706,806 came with 12 volt - ground gas 1 battery diesel 2 6V battery and a 12 volt gennerator. NAPA had a different starter gear for 656 don't know why but they did and it did not work because cannot change 1 gear without the other, maybe why never had different starter for 400,450.

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Steven@nd FACT

05-19-2002 19:16:07

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Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to BIG JOHN, 05-19-2002 19:11:06

You can change the regulator and get 12volts from a generator. Our 806 was a 12v system (2 6v batteries in series) and had a generator.

Steven

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Walt in Jaxn, Tn.

05-19-2002 20:10:30

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Re: Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to Steven@nd FACT, 05-19-2002 19:16:07

i had the generator tested on my mm z, i was going to get it rebuilt back to factory 6 volt. i watched as the generator was strapped up to the test machine and pulled with an electric motor and belt. just before the belt broke, i saw 32 volts on the meter. i asked about this and was told the regulator determines the voltage going to the battery and other parts of the tractor. i asked if you could use a 6 volt generator to replace a 12 volt and was told no but i forget why. by the way, the charging system dosen't put out 6 and 12 volts, its more like 8 and 15 volts-----walt

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John Canada

05-19-2002 21:07:53

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Re: Re: Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to Walt in Jaxn, Tn., 05-19-2002 20:10:30

the only way you can get 12volts out of 6volt generater is to replace 6volt armature,field coils and regulator with 12volt components.You could turn a 6volt starter with a 12volt battery for short term starts,any long and continued starting will kill your starter.

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WRONG

05-20-2002 14:51:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to John Canada, 05-19-2002 21:07:53

6 volt starters work very well on 12 volts and do NOT get hot with extended cranking.

If you tried to hook two engines together and start them with a 6v starter on 12v then you'd have a problem but a 6v starter on 12v works better than a 12v starter.

I've used them for 30 years, some on hard to start engines and have NEVER burned up a 6v starter on 12v!

Andy Martin

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Mr. T

02-26-2005 15:31:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FACT OR FICTION?????????????? in reply to WRONG, 05-20-2002 14:51:13

A D.C. generator without a load or without a regulator on it...will burn up. What does this say? The voltage goes sky high whether it be a 6v or 12v Generator. Thats why a "6V" Gen will work as a "12v" if you "allow" it to generate 12v with a 12v regulator. I have been running a Farmall M (old 6v) as a 12v system for 27 years with no problem whatsoever. I did add a resistor to the ignition coil and change lightbulbs. A sidenote to anyone changing over to a "one wire" alternator (has built in regulator) You will have to reverse the polarity on the tractor if it is POS ground to NEG Ground. this means reversing the ignition coil polarity. Then don't forget your new polarity when jump starting, it is pretty common to just clamp on the tractor chassis and the hot wire from the battery so polarity is not evident.

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