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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Question for Hugh MacKay and others

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Brian in MO

09-01-2003 10:32:02




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Not really farmall but tractor related. I remember quite a while back reading a post about HP per acre (I was thinking Hugh may have post a number he used) and was wondering how that works into todays farms both big and small? How many hp per acre do you have? We have a total of 370 hp with 5 tractors and probably cover less than 250 acres of ground between row crops and hay. So we would be at 1.4 hp per acre.

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Hugh MacKay

09-02-2003 04:44:02




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 Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Brian in MO, 09-01-2003 10:32:02  
Brian: You are probably right in this not being a great subject for Farmall discussion page. Having said what I had to say on this subject I can also see where you and Steve are coming from. I can also see why it makes sence for you guys to have all that hp around for just what you are doing. There are some funny economics involved in agriculture today. If you guys send me a personal e mail I will elaborate a bit more. I think you guys have touched on an excellent subject here, it needs some more discussion, but probably not on Farmall page at YT. Having said that the key to this discussion is not about hp per acre but rather how you guys can become full time farmers, and say,"take this job and shove it".

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Steve450

09-01-2003 19:08:46




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 Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Brian in MO, 09-01-2003 10:32:02  
My buddy and I hobby Farm (corn and Hay) on about 30 acers.
We have a Farmall 656D, a J.D. 2010, and a J.D. B. Thats about 130 HP for 30 Acers. Overkill? Yes. Saves alot of time? Yes. We both have full time jobs and growing families and also some side hill ground that is alot nicer on a "bigger" tractor. It all depends what you are looking to do.



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TP from Central PA

09-02-2003 11:47:24




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 Re: Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Steve450, 09-01-2003 19:08:46  
If you got "Too Much" for 30 acres, We got "Over-kill" on 40..... ..... .And sometimes I NEED MORE!!!!!



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Brian in MO

09-01-2003 19:25:43




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 Re: Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Steve450, 09-01-2003 19:08:46  
Steve I couldn't agree more about the bigger tractors, for me it's way past a hobby. Started out a buddy and I with hay and corn (for his cows) then came my cows, then came beans, then more hay (due to more cows) and I still have a full time job in construction that requires 50+ hrs a week and a growing family but wouldn't trade it all for the world. Brian



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Hugh MacKay again

09-01-2003 18:39:37




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 Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Brian in MO, 09-01-2003 10:32:02  
Brian: This time I will give you a few examples.
1. Two brothers farming 5,000 acres corn beans and winter wheat, 2-300 hp Deeres, 3 tractors I would judge 100 hp average each, 9600 Deere combine and small Gleaner. They farm over 45 miles of road. Their grain wagons are all highway dump trailers. They use a train tow dolly with air brake on one of the Deeres for pulling these. Beyond 5 miles from home base they hire highway tractors to pull these to elevator. My judgement I call their tractor and Combine hp 1,200 and on the 5,000 acres are very close to the 1/4 hp per acre.

2. Father and son 2,500 acres cash crop and beef, slightly over 900 hp so they are just over 1/3 hp per acre

3. 800 acres cash crop and hogs 300 hp plus custom hires combine, again close to 1/3 plus the combine.

4. Had an uncle in the 1950s farmed about 100 acres 20 dairy cows, did all his work with a Super A. I measure that one at 1/5 hp per acre.

5. My dad farmed 200 acres and 40 dairy cows in 1950s with Farmalls 300 and 130. Close to 1/4 hp per acre.

So you see progress has been great. I can not think of anyone today doing better than 1/4 hp per acre. In the mid 1950s a Ford or Chevy sedan would give you 25 miles per Canadian Gallon, today sedans about the same size with all the computer efficiency bells and whistles will give 25 miles per Canadian Gallon. That should come out to 20 miles per US gallon. I guess it just takes more horse power to be efficient.

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dhermesc

09-02-2003 06:04:17




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 Re: Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Hugh MacKay again, 09-01-2003 18:39:37  
The other thing you have to remember is CUSTOM WORK. The guys that are serious about this have a huge capital outlay in modern equipment that has to pay for itself.

I have two brothers that cover about 2600 acres of row crop and hay of their own with about 1100 hp, but they are constantly picking up additional work with neighbors that mainly consists of single pass work (run over somebody's ground with the soil saver or field cultivator and the neighbor plants it) or haying with their swathers and big square baler. They cover at least an additional 2500 acres that way for cash flow and to keep the equipment busy.

By the same token another brother and I have about 330 hp to cover only 320 acres of row crop and hay of our own, but we also cover about 300 acres of hay on shares and we pick up some field work with the heavier equipment behind the old 1456 and 856 (we don't do any custom work with the smaller equipment). We are not near as efficient as we both work off the farm and the equipment is usually sitting during "prime" working hours.

You really want to see inefficiency, look at the typical block in the suburbs, every house has a push mower, riding mower, ect and ect... usually comes out to about 40-50 hp per acre.

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Hugh MacKay

09-03-2003 04:00:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to dhermesc, 09-02-2003 06:04:17  
dhermesc: I don't think we should let ourselves get to concerned about those guys in the suburbs and their toys.

As a former full time farmer my concern is and always has been that you and guys like you, whether you be a full time farmer or part time holding down another job. I like to see people make money for their efforts. If I go back over my years of farming and look at the financial returns for the various years. I made more money when I was under powered than when over powered, and at various time during my career I have had it both ways. I just like to see hard working people make money.

And by the way it is nice to see you run tractors with comfort. 56 series were the most comfortable. I also had 66 series, looked like they should be just as comfortable but they weren't. Of course past history now tells us 66 was down hill in all respects.

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Brian in MO

09-01-2003 18:55:10




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 Re: Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Hugh MacKay again, 09-01-2003 18:39:37  
Hugh, I appreciate your replies and enjoy reading your posts. In my case I farm some but I also enjoy the old tractors so I have more than I really need. I still find it amazing what my grandpa could get done with the tractors and equipment of that day but the 1/4 to 1/2 hp was about right for them too. There's alot to be learned from some of the "more experienced" people on this board. Brian



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Hugh MacKay

09-01-2003 15:17:32




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 Re: Question for Hugh MacKay and others in reply to Brian in MO, 09-01-2003 10:32:02  
Brian: Many of the commercial operator today are aiming for 1/4 hp per acre. I think very few are actually achiving that. I know a few guys that are in the 1/2 hp per acre range. I don't know of anyone in the 1/4 range. There are also some variables in here as well. Livestock farmers are going to use more especially those with confined feeding and manure handling. Then you throw in farm trucks and just how much work is being by trucks that some others do with tractors.

I had a cash cropper tell me he was under 1/4 hp per acre. I said what about your combine, you are harvesting with it, yet your neighbor dairy farmer is doing all his harvesting with tractors. Then you have the farmer hiring custom operators, they are indeed paying for horse power.

I do believe there are farmers getting in under the 1/2 hp per acre. I think there are farmers aiming for 1/4 hp per acre, whether they are achiving is another matter. I think it can be done if you take out all the trucking tractors do, all the barn chores tractors do, all the feeding tractors do, and just leave the actual field work.

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