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Timing advance springs in distributor - don't matc

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Bradford253

12-10-2004 07:45:32

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I am having the followinig trouble with my Super H: When I pull the trottle back the engine wants to kill. If I push the throttle forward it will recover. It also wants to kill if any load is applied to the engine. I have changed the points, condenser, rotor, plug wires and have put a kit in the carb. My latest theory is that the springs in the distributor are not allowing the spark to advance quick enouph. When I took them out I noticed that they were not a matched set. One is larger diameter and weeker than the other. Should they be a matched set? I read on here that you could use springs from a Chevy recurve kit, but those springs seem to short. Can one of you experts give me some advise?

Thanks in advance,
Brad

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farmall

01-01-2005 20:49:20

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

Brad I have the exact same problem, I haven,t touched the timing springs yet just wondering if you solved the problem Kevin.My carb is clear and I changed all the dist. components except the springs Help its driving me crazy.

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Kelly C

12-10-2004 14:54:18

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

I have to agree with the Carb guys.
Had the same syptoms with my 460.
Rebuilt the carb= didnt fix it.
Purchased a rebuilt carb for $170- still didnt fix it.
Finnaly gave in and took it to a mechanic. He dinked around with it for a wile. Pulled a carb off a good running 560 and wala purred like a kitten. Exchanged the purchased carb for another and she runs good.
I hate Carbs!!!
See if you can test with a known good carb if you can.

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Bradford253

12-10-2004 13:59:59

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

Thanks to all you guys for responding to my post. Now I have some things to try. Thanks again.

Brad

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Randy SE-MN.

12-10-2004 13:42:34

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

I pulled a real dumb thing 2 years ago when i split my M for major surgery (clutch,gearbox & axle bearings etc.), I went and closed the fuel shut-off valve at the sediment bowl. Well, three weeks later when I finished the project, I proudly took it out on the road for a test run, and I had the same thing happen...I done forgot to open the dad-burn shutoff valve. It"s amazing how well they run when they get fuel...

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DWV

12-10-2004 13:15:55

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

Checked 3 new sets of IH springs I have in unopened packages all different part #.They are
for H through 450 probably others. 1 set springs match,2 sets springs are different.Set that fits your tractor is unmatched.

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MagMan

12-11-2004 02:58:11

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to DWV, 12-10-2004 13:15:55

You would not have a set to sell cheap would ya? JON

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DWV

12-11-2004 08:36:55

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to MagMan, 12-11-2004 02:58:11

Not for sale, Thanks

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12-10-2004 09:24:28

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

open the high speed jet on your carb up 1-1/2 turns and see if that help. I found out the hard way on this one. These old things need a whole lot more gas than I thought they should need, but my M runs correct now, because of this.

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Bob M

12-10-2004 09:19:31

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

Brad - According to the SH parts book the distributor springs are an identical pair (part no. 358 108 R91). However as Bob observes below it is not unusual for different springs to be mixed to �fine tune� the timing advance curve. Note however that even small changes in spring rates can have a dramatic effect on good running and fuel economy � if in doubt of what springs you�ve got I�d install a new pair of the correct springs.

However your stumbling problem is more symptomatic of a lean carburetor condition. [If the distributor advance was messed up you�d get backfiring out of the carburetor and possible knocking (springs too weak) or low power and possibly flames out the exhaust (springs too stiff)]. Anyway either the carb high speed screw is set too lean, there�s a partial blockage in the high speed circuit or the float level is set too low.

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Chadd

12-10-2004 08:43:50

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

I don't know about what springs are in a chevy kit, but make sure that they are the same as the ones that are sold by your dealer. If their tension is a little bit off, they can really make the tractor "fun" to start. Our W6 had one of the springs broken off. The weight was actually rubbing around the distributor base as it turned. It ran a lot better after we replaced them. If the springs are too tight, the timing will not dial back when starting the tractor, leading to kicking back against the starter or the hand crank (the spring would have to be pretty drastically wrong to cause that though). I think that IH offered a revised set of springs for the Super H and M to improve running quality and power , but I am not sure when they were released or if that is really true. Someone correct me if I am wrong. That said, It seems more likely that the carb is the problem to me. How does it start and idle?

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the tractor vet

12-10-2004 08:23:03

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

I agree with BOB and it is carb problem and it is also a bit of a timming issue . Have you put a timming lite on it and checked the timming ????? ? and also are you using cheep gas . As fore the dist advance it is not something that you can check real easy on the tractor and be sure that it is 100% on you can get and idea that it is working with a lite but it has to be set up on a machine and this is one of them things that is getting to be a lost art like finding a good Mag repairman , I have done dist. work since way back in the 60's and can tweek a dist . I sold the one dist machine when i quit drag racing and when i started playen with tractor and wanted to find and other one i looked long and hard it seamed that since electroinc ing's came out people just thru them in the dumpster.

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Bob

12-10-2004 07:52:05

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Re: Timing advance springs in distributor - don't in reply to Bradford253, 12-10-2004 07:45:32

If the engine "kills" as the throttle is pulled back, you likely have a carburetor problem, and when the fuel flow in the carburetor needs to switch from the "HIGH SPEED or LOAD" circuit to the idle circuit it's starving for gas.

As far as the advance springs, I cannot speak specifically for your tractor, but on various distributors, it is NOT UNCOMMON for the springs NOT to be matched.

This use of unmatched springs is a way for the manufacturer to "tweak" the advance curve to the exact spec's they want.

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