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Starting on gas switching to diesel

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bob

01-02-2000 10:37:51




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My granpa used to have a farmall 400 that started on gas then when it warmed up you had to switch it over to dielel could someone please explain this to me thanks for the help was just wondering how it worked thanks again




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Mudcat49

01-02-2000 21:04:58




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 Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to bob, 01-02-2000 10:37:51  
We used to run a lot of TD-6's and TD-9's as well as UD-6's and UD-9's with the old crank on gas switch to fuel type motors. The problem we had here in hot South Florida with the heads cracking was not the motors cooling down right, but the motors running hot and cold water being added too fast.



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bob

01-02-2000 18:48:42




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 Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to bob, 01-02-2000 10:37:51  
Thanks for insightful information it was in great detail just like i wanted , grandpa said it was a good tractor but it liked to crack heads, he tracded it off on a 400 gas which was also an excellent tractor thanks again for the information



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Bob M

01-03-2000 04:29:28




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 Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to bob , 01-02-2000 18:48:42  
Right about the tendency for these motors to crack heads. However when correctly operated (gradual warm up and cool down), and properly maintained (NEVER let one run low on coolant!) the gas-diesel was a good, reliable engine.



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Bob M

01-02-2000 11:17:52




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 Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to bob, 01-02-2000 10:37:51  
The IH gas start diesel has a unique cylinder head and valve arrangement. It's got an auxiliary "starting valve" in each cylinder that connects a starting chamber (containing the spark plug) for each cylinder. When the starting valve is open, the compression ratio is significantly reduced, making the engine easier to crank.

When you pull the starting (or compression release) lever a bunch of things happen: It opens the starting valve in each cylinder; it opens a diverter valve inside the intake manifold to divert inlet air thru the starting carburetor; it releases the float in the starting carburetor so the carb fills with gas; it closes the primary circuit to the ignition coil. Now when the motor is cranked it'll start and run as a low compression gasoline engine.

After the motor warms for a minute or two on gas, the starting lever is moved to the run (or diesel) position. This closes the starting valves, effectively raising the compression ratio to the diesel range (about 14:1), moves the intake manifold diverter valves so only air is fed to the engine, closes the float valve in the carb, and shuts off the ignition. At the same time the injection pump starts feeding fuel to the injectors. The motor is now running as a diesel.

The starting system is almost fiendishly complex, but properly adjusted it DOES work, and permits a relatively small battery and starter (or even a hand crank!) to start a fair-sized diesel engine.

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Larry

01-02-2000 12:32:21




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 Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to Bob M, 01-02-2000 11:17:52  
Your summary was very good regarding the Farmall diesel engine.

I had the opportunity to see a Super MD started on a cold day (10F) while sitting outside. The engine block heater was plugged in. It started relativily easily. The engine was switched over to diesel within approximately 5 minutes after starting.

How was the reliability of the engine? Did they require a lot of maintenance? Are parts, and talent to work on them, still available? Were the head and block rugged enough?

Just curious.

Thanks in advance.

Larry

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I have 20 gas start Diesels

01-06-2000 08:19:43




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 Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to Larry, 01-02-2000 12:32:21  
I have MD's, Super MD with and without TA, 400's, 450's, and a 600. I work on them as need my self.



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MD and SMD

01-02-2000 13:18:37




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 Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to Larry, 01-02-2000 12:32:21  
Larry We got new the 6th MD built and later a 1953 SMD. I ran the '53 SMD much more but both were great tractors. The first MD did all heavy work on 320 acres at home and custom work in off season.. Both started very good in minus 20 degrees here in Minnesota. Neither tractor had cracked head problems as we never shut off an engine that was hot without a cooldown first and never put a heavy load on without a warmup period. We had very few problems of any kind in many many years of row crop farming with them. Like anything else, a little care goes a long ways to "good luck" with a machine. Both were really great tractors. harvey

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Cool down

01-03-2000 06:45:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to MD and SMD, 01-02-2000 13:18:37  
All: On both MD's we let it idle at "fast" idle which was maybe 1/4 to 1/3 throttle. Another thing that we did was to switch back to gas for a short time of maybe 30 seconds and then SWITCHOFF (after which we returned to diesel settings) Not really a big deal since there always seemed to be something to clean or grease etc while the shutdown was taking place from a real heavy (hot) work load. Now if we had not worked it much at all to raise the temp, then shutdown was a bit quicker.. HR harvey

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T'other Fred

01-02-2000 19:19:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to MD and SMD, 01-02-2000 13:18:37  
Cooling down:

Is it adequate to cool and even out the temps in these engines to let the machine sit at idle for five to ten minutes, or does it need slightly faster RPMs to keep the coolant circulating?



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Redfan

01-03-2000 01:13:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to T'other Fred, 01-02-2000 19:19:50  
Fred, I think an idle for a reasonable length of time would be sufficient. I must add that where I live and farm is rather temperate, and the cooling down was not as big a problem as they experienced in the Snowy Mts. with the TD24s. The tractors we had most experience with in this area were WD9, WD6, TD14, TD18 & TD9. Our 6 series Dozers were more likely to be the British BTD6. One more point in the cooling down procedure, I was always told to switch them back to Petrol mode and run them for a while to help "clean" out the Auxilliary combustion chamber before shutting down. When the engine had stopped, it was important to put it back on Diesel mode to help the Starting valve cool slowly and prevent it from distorting. Regards, Redfan.

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Redfan

01-02-2000 14:49:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to MD and SMD, 01-02-2000 13:18:37  
Bob, the answer given above was very complete. I might just add that the practice of cooling down before shutting off was critical. The TD24 dozer was used extensively on the Snowy Mt. Scheme in Australia and under those freezing conditions they were having trouble with cracking heads, until an IH Engineer came out from the States and suggested a few worker habit changes. Problem solved.The TD24 used exactly the same starting principle as the 400 you mentioned.Regards, Redfan

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Bob M

01-03-2000 04:24:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to Redfan, 01-02-2000 14:49:53  
Thanks for reminding about the importance of cooling down the motor before shutdown! There's a couple paragraphs about it in the operator's manual...



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Rich B

01-06-2000 04:53:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: starting on gas switching to diesel in reply to Bob M, 01-03-2000 04:24:38  
It is very important to cool down these engines before shutting down also to drain the sump on the diesel injection pump after every use it has a drain on it, as it does fill up with diesel fuel. when that happens it will pump the crankcase full of diesel fuel goodbye bearings.The fuel pump has a packing and it isn't the best and will let fuel leak into injector pump sump. I leave my drain open all the time.This motor is very fuel eff lot cheaper to run then the gas,I have one with 22000 hours and just a valve job on it.

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