6V Wiring/Regulator

I have had a Super H for the past 25 years or so, only used to plow snow and split wood. about 10 years ago the regulator went and I replaced it, since then I have to replace it every 10 to 16 months as the system discharges and of course the battery goes dead.

I since replaced the coil, points, battery and had the generator rebuilt although the fellow said it was in good shape.

Is there something else I should be looking at, everything is 6 volt positive ground.

I seem to recall mny years ago an old fellow tellong me the amp box has something in it that can go bad but I have never had it apart. All the tractor wiring is in very good shape.

Any help will be appreciated.

Andy

What happens is when first installed the generator shows it is charging around 5 amps which is fine, then some 10+ months later all of a sudden to moves to -10, tap the VR and it will bounce over to charge for maybe 3 to 5 min then go back to discharge.

I have a ground wire running directly to the battery (positive ground), no water in the VR.

The only thing I can think of as I have tried everything I know, is to run all new wires which is not a big job. I was however wondering if there is anything in the switch box (light) that could effect this or if I was missing something.

Thanks
Again

1 - Still may be a bad regulator ground.

I encountered a similar problem with a Super M (wired same as a Super H). The system worked OK in wet weather but became erratic - including an odd -10 amp discharge like you're seeing - in dry or sub-freezing weather. Turned out the regulator was ground OK whenever it was wet. But when it dried out or froze, the ground resistance increased to the point the regulator could not work properly. (Cleaning up the regulator ground solved the problem.)

2 - Other possibility is an intermittant open circuit between the regulator "F" and generator "F" terminals.

To test, next time it begins to act up, ground the "F" terminal at the generator. If the ammeter indicates a normal charge with the generator "F" grounded, try run a new wire between the regulator and generator "F" terminals.

Both of the above assume of course the voltage regulator is working OK...

For it to move to - 10, the VR's Cutout Relay must still be closed and its discharging through the Genny (I dont see that much current draw from the coil only) buttttt t if it were ONLY the Field current control relay portion of the VR thats acting up (unsure if its a 2 or 3 coil VR or what??) I would still expect maybe a small + charge, but if no charge at all I would expect the cutout relay to open thereby eliminating that high 10 amp discharge !!!!! !!!

Im back to a loose or resistive wiring connection somewhere or a bad ground cuz since its an IHC VR (per Bob n you) I dont see why it should fail so quickly otherwise.

A good re wire and re connections n ground checks is alllll lllll l I can think of, look forward to Bobs thoughts!!!!! !!!!

A puzzled John T

Q1) You mention "regulator" is the tractor equipped with a full fledged 3 terminal (BAT ARM FLD) Voltage Regulator orrrrr rrrrr a simple 2 terminal (BAT GEN) Cutout Relay????? ????? (some have the F terminal also, however)

Q2) Is your Light Switch the 4 position L H D B or a light switch ONLY????? ??? (whats normally used if its a VR instead of a Cutout relay)

I cant prove this as I have no specs or data nor know the brand or type of your VR Buttttt tt believe on some VR's they are sort of Generic n will work at EITHER Pos or Neg ground buttttt ttt will last longer if used the correct polarity, it has to do with the coatings on the cutout relay contacts.

Q3) When the battery runs down is it like a slowwwww ww gradual thing over time or does the ammeter register a heavy discharge when you shut it off (genny can get hot) and then she runs down very fast?????

If she registers a heayy discharge on shutdown n the genny gets hot thats a sticking/burned cutout relay contact (regardless in in a VR or the 2 wire cutout relay)

Q4) Does it have a working ammeter and whats it show runnig wide open and then when shut down??? i.e. is she charging okay normally????? ?

Q5) After the genny was rebuilt, did you Polarize it before starting the tractor???

If the gennys is at opposite polarity from the battery and wasnt polarized correct, it can mess up a VR, maybe thats the problem????

The amp box problem you heard about concerns the L H D B light switches used on the simple 2 wire cutout relay systems cuz on those if the resistor is bad or the switch is bad or dont have a good ground it can cause weak or no charging, thats why we need to know which system you have !!!!! !!!

Q6) If theres not a working ammeter do you know if shes charging or not????? Do the lights glow noticeably brighter from idle to wide open????? if you place a voltmeter on the battery n shes charging it ought to rise from 6.3 volts setting to near 7 when running wide open.....

From the limited info available I cant tell if shes never charging so the battery eventually just runs down of if she is charging but the VR or cutout relay goes bad?????

TRY THIS:::::::::::::::::;;

With her running temporarily dead ground the gennys Field post..... see if she charges then or it makes no difference ????? ?????

(A) If it charges then BUT NOT OTHERWISE the problem may be the light switch (if a 2 wire relay and a L H D B switch),,,,, ,,or the wires bad from the gennys Field post up to the switch,,,,, ,,,or the switch isnt well grounded. (B) If its a VR, then the problems either the VR is bad,,,,, ,or not well grounded (ground it to the gennys case better),,,,, or the wires bad from the gennys Field post to Fld on VR.

I need to know if shes ever charging or not and then if she is charging how long it takes to discharge the battery to help you more.

My off the top ideas are shes never charging at all cuz of the light switch (if a 2 wire cutout relay),,,,, ,, or the VR is bad cuz it may not be best suitable for your positive ground (if a 3 wire VR system) ,,,,, ,,or there may be minor issues like poor connectiojns or even a loose beklt or a bad ground either on the VR or genny.....

If you wanna work through my Complete Troubleshooting Procedure for non charging post back and I will re post it but its pretty long n complicated so try the field ground tests above n let me know if shes charging n what the ammeter does n easy simple things first like check the VR and genny for a good ground,,,,, ,,,,,tighten the belt,,,,, ,,,check wiring n connections,,,,, ,try n answer my questions above,,,,,and I will try my best to help you more. I kinda wonder if she was Polarized correctly?? cuz that can harm a VR

Best wishes n God Bless, lemme know

John T

A few thoughts…

VR’s require a SOLID ground to operate – otherwise they work poorly and die young. Poor grounding is more common with Stage II tractors as VR grounding depends on a good electrical connection between the steering stanchion and the tranny cover – something which is not always the case. Good practice then is to run a dedicated ground wire direct from the regulator base to the grounded battery cable.

Could be water is getting inside the VR box and causing corrosion. Less of a problem with Stage I tractors (the VR is partially shielded from the weather by the hood). However the Stage II SH has it located on the front of ammeter box and fully exposed to rain, snow, etc.

Finally if you are using the cheaper, non-OEM VR’s (eg. from TISCO…) they may not be as robust as those from CIH or Delco. OTOH I’ve had a TISCO regulator on my SH for 7 or 8 years (and several hundred hours of use…) with no difficulties whatsoever.

Take care

John T

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Incidentally and FYI, the Super H came equipped from the factory with a 4-terminal voltage regulator. (IHC had discontinued with cutouts and the 4-position, charge control light switch several years before the introduction of the Super H.)

...Bob