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Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram

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Bob G.

01-27-2000 05:26:41

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I have been gone so I am a little late with a response to this subject. The question was asked about the engine not shuting off once the ign. switch was opened. The answers were haveing to do with the warning light starving the engine for juice. Respectfully, I think that even if this were the case it would still kill the battery over time. Alternators need juice in order to put out juice, they aren't like generators in this respect. I think the wire going to #1 is to feed the rotor with current via the internal voltage regulator, and the warning light is to tell if the alternator is charging. I also think there is a Diode to keep the current from feeding back to the ignition, allowing the engine to stop when the ign switch is opened. Does anybody have a internal diagram of the alternator we are looking at?? By the way very nice wiring diagram Thanks to Bob M.

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Branden Nyberg

05-20-2002 16:36:07

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

Hi, Im having problems hooking up the wires on my alternator, I have a 1987 for ranger 2.9L V6 and I have a 95 powerstroke diesel alternator its all mounted in right but The wiring isn`t working its not charging now the plug on the top of those alternators the plug connected to the regulator I have a yellow and green wires one has to be on a clip to plug onto a terminal which one would be it? I already have that postitve hooked up now so what now with the green and yellow wires??
I hope you can help thanx Branden

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mikey

01-01-2002 17:08:44

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

i have a massey 22 tractor converted to 12 volt with a gm 3 terminal alternator{batt,1,2)i put the batt directly to the battery #1 to the ign. switch and the #2 to the battery with a short jumper wire. now the tractor runs good charges good but however when the tractor is running at top rpms it starves for fire,if i unplug the alternator it operates normal at high rmps so its the alternator that is starving the engine for power.if anyone can help me to solve this problem it would be greatly appreciated!!!!

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Jeff W.

01-29-2000 16:36:26

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

Here's how I've always done it, ac delco. Big bat. post to battery through amp gauge, or not the 43 has one, term. 1 to the same bat. post.
term. 2 to switch. My old mechanic freind showed me this 10 years ago. You don't need any diodes,
my coil wire and the alt. wire are hooked on the same post on the little IH grounding switch. I've used this same setup on so many things i can't begin to count. I have messed around and put the wire from the switch on the #1 term and couldn't get the tractor to stop. My 2 cents worth hope it helps. Jeff

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Tony

01-28-2000 09:31:57

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

I found the easist way to get the wiring right when you do a conversion, is to go to you local electric motor shop ( the place that tests and repairs alt., generators, starters, etc.) and ask them how to wire it up correctly. This is what I did when I switched my 706 diesel over from a generator. It saved me alot of headaches and guess work.

As far as some other things that I have seen in this posting:

One way to see if either your alt. or battery is bad as far as charging goes, is to disconnect the battery. If the motor keeps running the battery is bad. If it doesn't, the alt. is bad. This of course only works with gas engines.

In a charging system, the battery is the resevoir for electricity. Your alt. sends the current to the battery and the electrical system draws what it needs from the battery.

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Bus Driver

11-22-2000 17:35:04

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Tony, 01-28-2000 09:31:57

I just noticed the suggestion of Tony to test by disconnecting the battery on a running tractor. If this is done with a Delco alternator, the diodes will be ruined. I think that this suggestion is not good.

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ltf in nc

01-27-2000 16:59:47

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

Bob M is on the money. If the alternator is not defective, the system he has posted the diagram of will function perfectly.

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twopop

01-27-2000 12:39:32

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

ONCE THE ALTERNATOR HAS BEEN EXCITED THRU THE IDIOT LIGHT CIRCUIT THE ALT WILL CONTINUE TO CHARGE EVEN WITH THE TWO WIRE CONNECTOR REMOVED,HOWEVER THE ALT.WILL NOT HAVE A MEANS TO DETEMINE HOW MANY AMPS IT SHOULD PUT OUT TO KEEP UP WITH USAGE. ANYWAY MY MAIN POINT IS THE COIL WIRE AND THE RED CONNECTOR WIRE MUST BE SEPERATED SOMEWHERE WHEN THE KEY IS TURNED OFF OR THE MOTOR WILL CONTINUE TO RUN

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Dave

01-27-2000 08:36:16

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

I'm a little confused. I have a 41 A with 6V generator: does this mean I too should have voltage from the generator whenever the engine is running? (Even with no battery installed?).
Or is this a completely different animal because of magneto ignition?

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Theman

01-27-2000 09:11:46

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Dave, 01-27-2000 08:36:16

Yes, and yes. There is residual magnetism in the generator...enough to pull the regulator cutout closed and start charging. In fact you should be able to pull the negative (assuming positive ground 6 volt) battery cable off with the engine running and the distributor ignition will operate from the generator.

Your magneto doesn't use power from your battery and is not affected by your charging system.

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Dave

01-27-2000 10:50:45

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Re: Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Theman, 01-27-2000 09:11:46

Still a bit confused. If I start with a hand crank, and no battery at all, I'm still supposed to get voltage out (must mean this is a permanent magnet generator?)? Also, what do you mean by "the distributor ignition will operate off the generator?"

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Bob M

01-27-2000 11:55:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Dave, 01-27-2000 10:50:45

Dave - You pretty much got it. If you can start with a hand crank, you must have magneto ignition. (A mag is designed to give firing voltage at hand crank speed, and it operates completely independent of the charging system).

But with coil/distributor, there's no current available until the generator is spinning fast enough to generate enough volts to cause the cut-out relay to pull in. This generally occurs at RPM's a little faster than normal idle. Thus you CAN start a distributor equipped tractor without the battery, but you gotta pull the tractor and get the motor spinning at fast idle RPM's before it'll start. (Been there, done that...)

BTW tractor generators are not permanent magnet devices - they have wound field poles. Residual magnetism in the poles will generate a small voltage in the armature when it starts to spin. This in turn strengthens the field poles causing armature voltage to quickly build up to rated value as the rpms increase.

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MrGadget

01-27-2000 07:58:14

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

Bob G, I respectfully disagree with with your statement that "alternators need juice in order to put out juice".

My IH350 Utility has been converted to 12 volt with a GM alternator. Just a few weeks ago I needed to have both it and the 560 running at the same time, and only had one good battery, the one in the 350. I started the 350, and pulled the battery to use on the 560 (still has the standard generator system). The 350 stayed running on its own, without a battery.

Short of any other explanation, I believe this negates your statement.

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MrG:Thanks guys...

01-27-2000 13:35:38

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to MrGadget, 01-27-2000 07:58:14

I learned sumthin'! (so at lwast the day isn't a total loss!) :-) Gadget

P.S. after I pulled the good battery out of the 350, I immediately installed the dead battery in it (even before I took the good one to 560). My charger is kaput and I couldn't get the 560 to jump start.

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Bob M

01-27-2000 10:15:56

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to MrGadget, 01-27-2000 07:58:14

MrG - The Delco alternator (at least the 10 SI) only needs battery voltage applied to the #1 terminal until it's spinning fast enough to generate electricity. After it gets going it taps excitation current from it's own internal circuitry. So it will indeed work without a batter. However...

Alternator manuals specifically warn to NOT disconect the battery from an alternator-equipped engine while it's running. Reason is the battery acts kinda like a "ballast" for the electrical system, keeping system voltages from changing too rapidly for the regulator to control.

This happened to me: Pulled the battery from an older alternator-equipped Chrysler product - motor was idling and the lights were on. There was an arc at the battery neg post as the cable came off, followed by a brilliant flash as all 4 headlights burned out, then the motor quit. Apparently the alternator developed a voltage surge as regulator tried to compensate for the loss in battery voltage. It was sufficient to destroy every lit lamp in the vehicle. Plus both the alternator and the regulator got fried. A spectacular, but costly lesson...

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Theman

01-27-2000 09:23:19

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to MrGadget, 01-27-2000 07:58:14

I humbly offer another explanation. When you started the 350 with the battery, it excited the field of the alternator as soon as the alternator was turning enough rpm's. Once the field is excited in a spinning alternator, the output of the alternator is used to keep the field excited through its internal circuitry (diodes, etc). This happed way before you disconnected the battery cables. The "juice" needed to "make juice" is momentary, not constant.

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Daniel

01-27-2000 09:12:16

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to MrGadget, 01-27-2000 07:58:14

Accutally, I believe you prove him right. How? The alternator does require voltage from the battery to start generating voltage. This voltage magnetizes the field, which is just a big electromagnet. Once the rotor turns in the magnetic field, it puts out its own voltage. After the tractor is running, you can remove the battery and the tractor will still run because the alternator is feeding itself. Don't ever try this in a modern vehivle though. The electronics, like the computer, can be damaged.
Just my input, Daniel.

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Tom S.

01-27-2000 10:46:04

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Re: Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Daniel, 01-27-2000 09:12:16

I believe Dan has the correct answer guys! Tom S.
Incidentially, I am told the idiot lamp is used in place of a diode. It won't pass enough current back to energize the alt and cause the battery to discharge when the motor is shut down. Correction?

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Bus Driver

11-22-2000 17:49:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Tom S., 01-27-2000 10:46:04

TomS is exactly right about the diode and the idiot lamp. The lamp (or a 5 watt 44 ohm resistor) furnish enough amperage to excite the alternator but limit the current back to a value less than the ignition requires. I prefer the resistor as it is more rugged than the diode and while the diode can be installed backward and not work, the resistor works either way. I put my exciter wire on the battery terminal of the ignition coil. The resistor (or lamp, or diode) is between the coil and the alternator. When I turn on the ignition, the alternator is "excited" and when I turn off the ignition, the exciter current stops. No extra switches and nothing to forget to turn on or off.

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Bob M

01-27-2000 07:52:21

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

Hey Bob G - I adapted that schematic directly from a GM car shop manual (an '80 Chevy Citation I think...) The Delco alternator has internal diodes, plus logic in the regulator chip that prevents the engine from running on and prevents the battery from drawing current with the ignition switch off. What DOES happen when the ignition switch is turned off is the warning light flickers until the engine stops turning - same as in a GM car. But the lamp does not pass enough current to fire the plugs. And once the engine (and alternator) stop turning, the light goes out and no current gets drawn from the battery.

I've used this circuit for 20+ years on all sorts of farm and industrial engines. Trust me on this - as long as you wire it as shown in the diagram, it works great!

Bob M

PS - Someplace I have a schematic for the internal wiring of the Delco alternator. It's complex - fills an 8-1/2 x 11 page. I think only an electrical eng'r could understand it. But if I can find the schematic I'll take a digital picture of it and e-mail it to you. (One of my kids at college has "borrowed" my scanner...)

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twopop

01-27-2000 18:27:15

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Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob M, 01-27-2000 07:52:21

WHERE CAN I SEE THE POSTING OF THE SCHEMATIC? THANKS

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ltf in nc

01-27-2000 20:55:24

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Re: Re: Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to twopop, 01-27-2000 18:27:15

Currently on page five. Topic 6 to 12 volt conversion by Ralph. Look under Bob M's post. Twopop, I have used your switch version with the accessory/starter positions. Works fine even with a blown diode, does a superb job of isolating the alternator and does not have an idiot light to burn out and stop the charging of the alternator. Seems to be more than the typical upgrader wants to do, however. Bob's method has better acceptance as this is what most are accustomed to having on a car/truck.

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twopop

01-27-2000 07:19:00

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Re: Alternator Conversion Wiring Diagram in reply to Bob G. , 01-27-2000 05:26:41

when changing the elect.system from a generator to an alternator on a gas.engine and using a delco alt. i have found it to be necessary to separate the relay and field wires from the ign.circuit. the easiest way to do this is to install an ignition switch that has an accessary term on the switch.the relay and field wires are hooked to acc. and coil wire is hooked to ign. then the engine and charging system will stop when the key is turned off.actually the alt. once ignited will continue to charge with the key off until the alt stops turning

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