Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

300u Starter Problem Solved?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
JayWalt

01-27-2007 21:56:42




Report to Moderator

Hey Guys,
Got a better look at my starter on my 300u. After some thought and measuring It seems that the gear is going too far on the starter shaft and "jumping past" the "corkscrew"'s end. If you look at this pic, the flywheel is EXACTLY 2 inches in. The second pic shows where this jumping occurs and its obvious the flywheel does not stop it before that. I wouldnt think the flywheel should stop it anyways. There is also slack in the return spring. The collar on the right is threaded and spins with the shaft. I'm thinking it needs turned down the shaft a bit to restrict the gear from getting to the point where it can "jump past" the corkscrew. There is actually quite a bit of threads that I could turn it down to, probly at least 1/2" of threads beyond where the collar currently is. I'm thinking I should take the shaft off and shim that threaded collar with a couple of washers to prevent it from working back and to also keep the bushing in the cast. I have no idea if there was washers and they came off (probly only likely if they were fiber washers or plastic). This is the ONLY explaination to the problem at hand. Could u guys tell me if the collar is in the proper location. I HIGHLY doubt that it is because first I cant imagine they would allow the flywheel to restrict how far the gear moved into it, and I also dont think there should be alot of slack in the return spring. There aout 1/4" before the gear even touches the spring. I'm 99% sure I'm going to try this remedy. Please let me know if you think there is something im overlooking. I plan to diasassmble and clean the starter in any event and relube that front beaings since it probly has never been lubed since theres no access for it. The far right bushing has a slight play in it, but it should be fine. Ideally I would like to get a new one, but thats probly not going to happen. Also how loose is the gear supposed to be on the shaft, it seems awefully loose, but dad says thats the design so it is less likely to bind up. The corkscrew is like a VERY course "acme" thread (squared threads like on a heavy duty turnbuckle). I would imagine being this design, some play would be fine.



third party image

third party image

Also, since the gear has jumped, there is 2 possible rest positions for the gear. I'm ASSUMING the recess in the gear collar is too accommodate the bolt or whatever it is on the start shaft. Please verify this is the case. The pic shows it here in the wrong position (as does the first 2 pics, it actually goes back to the starter further), I just wanted you to see the piece I'm referring to.


third party image

If you guys need more explaination, just ask. I'm not too great at explanations.

Thanks guys!!

Unfortunately if this is the fix, the clutch will have to wait, it doesnt slip at all which is kinda surprising to me, but oh well. I kinda wanted to split the tractor since I got another month of layoff, but if it aint broke, I aint fixing it.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Roger Mills

01-28-2007 08:17:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
Both folks are right, the clutch drive is superior to the bendix and you can fix the one you have. A couple of things might help-the collar is a snubber and keeps the bendix from shoving the armature into the starter frame, that is also happening, the drive gear teeth should just clear the ring geer when retracted, they also just make full engagement to the ring teeth. I suggest you start by screwing in the collar a bit then assemble and spin the starter with a battery and no load to see where it centers up and THEN the armature end play at the other end needs to be checked, shim to stop the armature from moving out with just a little clearance. Then add shims between the back of the bendix drive and the armature to get clearance between the end of the drive gear teeth and the ring teeth, (extra is ok to a point). Measure the ring gear width (2" + X) and screw the snubber in until the measurement is correct for full throw and stake the collar in two or three (better) places. The last thing is to add a shim between the collar and the starter frame for about the same clearance as at the other end. This lets the armature spin free and in the center of the field. The next one you may choose to get the clutch drive replacement but have fun on this one-you can always send it to a shop and have it rebuilt.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
teddy52food

01-28-2007 08:05:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
There should be 3 washers on the shaft next to the inside of the nose. Are they all there?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JayWalt

01-28-2007 09:20:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to teddy52food, 01-28-2007 08:05:35  
nope, there's 1 washer, I know the problem now, just trying to get up the motiviation to tear into it, haha



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jimer

01-28-2007 07:44:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
Jay, if you lube the starter drive and live in my climate, use TriFlow. As I said earlier, I put in a new starter drive and the factory lube was too heavy to allow it to engage at 0 degrees and colder. So, back apart, clean out the original lube, and lube with TriFlow as advised on this site. Seems good now.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

01-28-2007 03:11:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
Jay: I have an inlaw, married to my 1st cousin, worked for years as a farm equipment mechanic at a sizable dealership. Later he became the service manager. All this occured in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. He was visiting one day and asked how I could tolerate these old gas Farmall starters. He told me his opinion was by the time you put in enough hours to make it work, you'd be better off junking the tractor.

I took him to my shop, started my tractors. He couldn't believe his ears. He then wanted to see these clutch drives, so we removed a starter. He said,"Finally someone has corrected the IH starter problem." I have to agree, I've been around IH tractors for over 50 years, for the price of a new clutch starter drive, you just can't afford to fool with those old bendix.

The price is under $50.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
williamf

01-28-2007 08:34:21




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-28-2007 03:11:13  
third party image

Hugh, that sounds like something that might save me a lot of work. I've been putting off splitting Mr.Haney to give him a new ring gear for so long that I might never. If the clutch drive could overcome the somewhat worn teeth it would save my having to turn the engine a little with the hand crank every time I get off. Did you get one from Case IH, or is there a supplier you could point me toward?
Or do these look too far gone?
Thanks, Wm

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

01-28-2007 09:41:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to williamf, 01-28-2007 08:34:21  
william: Those look quite bad, but then a photo makes them look much worse. I'd try the clutch drive. I didn't think it would cure my 130 and that was more than 12 years ago. I split the tractor in 2001 for a clutch assembly, yet did not change the ring gear.

I did spend a bit of time with a file on the ring gear before I gave up on the the old bendix. That undoubtedly helped some. I had my 130 starter out about a month ago, for cleaning that starter pull switch on top, the gears look as good as they did 10 years ago. In my opinion it's worth a shot, the new drive will not got astray.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
williamf

01-28-2007 16:01:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-28-2007 09:41:30  
That is the 'Before' picture, before I worked on it with the Dremel. It got a little better, but still would fail to engage most times, and to keep it from getting worse I'm strict with myself about turning the crank a little before trying it.
Any direction on where to shop first for the clutch drive?
Thanks, WM



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh Mackay

01-28-2007 16:30:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to williamf, 01-28-2007 16:01:05  
william: The clutch drives were only available at CaseIH. That may have changed in the past 10 years, I notice riverbend said he got one about 6 years ago from CaseIH.

I'm thinking CaseIH is the only place to find one. If they were available everywhere, there would be no bendix, they would be obsolete.

Jay thinks he has it solved, I can assure him what he has is a temperory fix. I've been around these old IH too many years to believe that. The damn bendix never was any good, when I think back to all the times we split those old tractors to replace a ring gear, the system was junk. Sure they can tinker it up, but who wants to be tinkering with a starter every 6 months. 12+ years and I've never touched either one of my clutch drives. I guess some folks just like to muck around in grease and dust mix.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
williamf

01-29-2007 01:26:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to Hugh Mackay, 01-28-2007 16:30:44  
Thanks Hugh.
I'll call my "local" dealer, and failing there, try C&G.
Wm



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JayWalt

01-27-2007 23:04:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
IIRC? Do you think I should restake it or shim it like I said. If I shim it, I will put some lube between the shim and the right bushing t help prevent it from wear. I dont think I will be able to stake it effectively. So this is the problem, that is AWESOME!!! =)



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

01-28-2007 10:02:07




Report to Moderator
 Jay in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 23:04:37  
"IIRC" = "If I remember correctly".

Did you get a chance to look at the drive, and see if the sleeve actually HAD been staked at the end, as I recall they are?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

01-28-2007 10:02:12




Report to Moderator
 Jay in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 23:04:37  
"IIRC" = "If I remember correctly".

Did you get a chance to look at the drive, and see if the sleeve actually HAD been staked at the end, as I recall they are?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

01-27-2007 22:38:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: 300u Starter Problem Solved? in reply to JayWalt, 01-27-2007 21:56:42  
IIRC, when you get the drive out of the starter,
you will see 2 places where the "collar" at the right was "STAKED" to what you are calling the "corkscrew".

It must have come loose, and unscrewed.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy