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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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H compression test

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Bob Kerr

08-17-2007 18:34:59




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Did a compression test on my H tonight. Here are the results. Tested with engine hot, all plugs removed, throttle open. #1 149lbs #2 151lbs #3 148lbs #4 145lbs....then tested with oil squirted in cyls #1 180lbs #2 180lbs #3 175lbs #4 170 lbs. Looks like it has Firecrater pistons according to webbers tractor parts website in the tune up section. What do you guys think of the results?




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Bob Kerr

08-17-2007 22:34:25




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 18:34:59  
One reason I did the test is because it uses a little oil, well maybe a little more than a little say about a half quart a day. Test seems to show the rings ok, so would valve guides cause it to use that much and smoke a bit? If I let it idle for a few min and then crack the throttle a lot of smoke comes out but if I am going down a steep hill it doesn"t do much when the gov opens back up. Sound like guides? is there a valve seal that would work in these?

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CNKS

08-18-2007 18:53:25




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 22:34:25  
How long a day? I have driven an H in the 50's for 10 hour days at full load. 1 quart in two days was considered to be normal, actually one quart a day was normal. When in bad need of overhaul they use 2 quarts in half a day -- I have used one that way too, until we could get it overhauled. At this point in time, unless you want perfection, you don't need to do anything. Those engines have loose tolerances compared to modern engines. You are fine.

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Bob Kerr

08-18-2007 19:49:38




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 Re: H compression test in reply to CNKS, 08-18-2007 18:53:25  
Usually run it from 10am till 8-9 pm sometimes as late as 11pm with mostly half throttle and some is just idling time. sometimes I might stop for a half hour for lunch. I know they can be sloppy compared to a modern engine, but my 29 10-20 didn"t smoke at all even when running kero. I rebuilt it with original sleeves and pistons because I just flat couldn"t find new ones at the time so it just got a hone and ring job but the head was all new but the main casting. Those pistons had a lot of slop but no noise out of them from slap. This H gives a good cloud when the throttle is opened and it has been idling a bit, but no cloud if you hit the throttle the second time. I guess maybe I am a bit of a pefectionist when it comes to machines, I got it honest from Dad. I about died when I saw no mention of valve stem seals in parts book or service manual, and all that oil fed to the top of the engine. I didn"t think to look through the springs when I did that last spring and see if any were in there.

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CNKS

08-19-2007 08:53:13




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-18-2007 19:49:38  
It all comes down to YOUR decision. If it is burning a half quart with no load, it obviously will burn more with full load. But, any engine will smoke when opened to full throttle after idle. If it is run at half throttle because the ground is rough, and you are overloading the tractor at that speed, then oil consumption will increase due to wear and tear on the engine. Better to shift down a gear and run at full throttle. If you are cultivating and load is not a factor, then perhaps you are ok. The letter series engines were designed before the current "shift up, throttle down" method was used. In other words, they were designed to be run at wide open throttle when conditions allowed. The only time we ever ran at part throttle was when cultivating or planting, and since our cultivation was shallow there was little load on the engine. Our H was run from 1948-1955 before it was overhauled. At that time it definitely needed it.

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Bob Kerr

08-19-2007 20:45:48




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 Re: H compression test in reply to CNKS, 08-19-2007 08:53:13  
I mostly use it in the woods pulling logs out to the road and pulling a trailer with firewood. When I pull logs I usually run full throttle especially when going up the steep hills. The biggest load I put on it was 2 9"long 2.75" dia ash logs. did real well with that load in low gear. I did have a problem on the last hill out. it gets really steep at the last 20 ft or so and the H spun the tires so I had to unhook one log and go up. It only has wheel weights, no calcium. The engine really never "pulled down" too hard like when plowing and hitting a nice patch of clay. Back in the 40s and 50s Dad was running Grandpas 300 and Ms a lot and hauled cattle feed 35 miles one way 3 times a week to our other farm with the M. That M got rebuilt several times in that time period. He also worked on a lot of them for neighbors and also in his shop he had later. I think a lot of younger guys don"t realise just how much those old tractors were used. Not like nowdays where they pull the planter and mow and that is about it unless they are pulling a grain cart at harvest. I hate to guess how many miles are in a 20 acre field when you plow, disc, plant, cultivate, mow, cutlivate, cutlivate, and then harvest and then run the manuer spreader and lime spreader. Lot of miles in a year. My H is getting new tires this week and then going back to the woods. Might be a wet fall and cold winter so I got to get plenty of "heat sticks" in the shedfor me and to sell.

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Jason Simmerman

08-18-2007 15:45:36




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 22:34:25  
Bob, I hate to tell you, it probiably needs a set of rings. If you gain 40 psi of cylinder pressure by putting a teaspoon of oil down in there it ain't your valve seals. Valve seals will show up as oil consumption but it won't seal up when you put a teaspoon of oil in the cylinder when doing a compression test. The teaspoon of oil merely gives an indication of the condition of the rings. It may run ok for awhile and you can get by as is because it sure makes decent compression but your oil burning problem is probiably from the rings.

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Bob Kerr

08-18-2007 20:06:45




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Jason Simmerman, 08-18-2007 15:45:36  
Yeah, but wouldn"t the oil burning and smoking get worse going down long steep hills if it were rings? This doesn"t do that and the pressure reading with no oil is right where it is supossed to be with firecrater pistons. With the oil (and I did possibly use too much oil , about 5 squirts with the oil can in each)the pressure is way above any IH pistons on the pressure chart I saw.. The piston top humps are as far as I can tell about 1/4" high so it is not like it has 8000" alt slugs in it. Maybe I better redo the with oil test and just use one squirt!

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Janicholson

08-18-2007 07:08:59




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 22:34:25  
Bob,
I believe in stem seals (especially Perfect circle type seals that meter oil into the stem. They will work, but are not a perfect solution to all oil consumption.
Get a parts person to look at the engine speca, or a callout for the seals from Dana Perfect circle company. There is no need to pull the head, just the valve cover and rocker assembly.

A valve spring compressor and a place to pry under to compress the valve springs is needed. (if the rockers are all removed and kept in order, the rocker shaft and towers are best).

Use about 3 ft of cotton cloths line rope. Pull the sparkplugs, valve cover and rocker arms (as above). then in #1 cyl stuff all but a pig tail of rope into the cyl (you may need to rotate the engine with the fan to get the piston down a bit to get the rope into the plug hole).
Turn the engine by the fan until it compresses the rope against the valves some. (you can even use the crank to put a bit of pressure on the rope). The valve keepers can now be removed. The best way to assure they will come loose is to free them as follows: find a deep 5/8 socket. cover all the pushrod holes and drain holes to the pan with a heavy cloth. Use a plastic hammer and position the socket on the retainer so the non-drive end of the socket is on the retainer, not on the valve stem, and give it a modest rap. this breaks the bond of time and pressure on the wedge style keepers. Just hit hard enough to jar the spring down a tad. Now use the valve spring compressor on the retainer, and a small magnet on the two keepers to prevent them from becomming identified flying objects. remove the spring, and there is the place for the seal. The seal has a tool that is used to push it on. so follow the directions. If a valve stem is pounded over from excessive clearance it will be necessary to use a dremel and grind the mushroomed over edges off of it.

THis whole process can take less than 3 hours, or as much as a half day, but it is usually rewarding in that you will know that the oil consumption is not guides. And it is pretty inexpensive. If a stem can be wiggled back and forth in the guide (they should be less than .002" at the very most) then consider continuing to tear down the head and do the needed repairs (maybe including sleeves and pistons if the rings have worn a ridge in the cylinders that you can feel with a fingernail. Good luck, JimN

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Bob Kerr

08-18-2007 20:40:58




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Janicholson, 08-18-2007 07:08:59  
Hi Jim, Good info you posted! Looks like we both do valves with head on the same way! I have done several in the past on Olds V8s, they usually just have warped or melted seals and good valve guides. I even taught Joe Mondello, the grandfather of Olds high performance engines the rope trick while at a car show, but at the show we had to use shoelaces since no one at the Indianapolis motor speedway had a clothesline handy hehehe! The guys who rode in that car all had black oily shoelaces on white tennis shoes, made for a sight to see but at least we got thier car running good again! It was on a real nice 69 Hurst Olds that broke a valve spring. That Joe Mondello really knows his way around an engine, but I couldn"t belive he never heard of using clothesline. I was (and am) leaning on the smoke problem being valve guides or the lack of seals. It just seems like a lot of smoke when it does it.

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jakee

08-17-2007 21:49:17




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 18:34:59  
no the oil will seal the rings and then you will have a hight reading



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Janicholson

08-17-2007 18:47:00




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 Re: H compression test in reply to Bob Kerr, 08-17-2007 18:34:59  
I like it. If several squirts of oil were put in, it will read high dur to the oil displacing chamber volume. But not bad results (two teaspoons is all that is needed, then crank it over a bit to spread it around) JimN



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