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Dumb Act of the Day!!

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Ben

09-13-2000 19:24:07

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While removing my waterpump on my "H" I broke off one bolt. Well today after drilling it out and breaking the extractor off in the bolt, I need some advice on how to and what drill type to use to get through the extractor. Any help on this extremly stupid mistake willhelp.

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George Willer

09-14-2000 07:51:55

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

Ben,
Go through your shop and gather up all the remaining screw extractors, or EZ-Outs. Send them to your worst enemy (anonymously of course) with the instruction to use only on the bolts that were stuck badly enough to twist off.

EZ-Outs can only work on a broken bolt that is not stuck in the hole. ???? Their action causes the bolt to expand in the hole...the very thing you wish to avoid.

Then go find the guy who convinced you such a tool had any possibility of working on a stuck bolt. I'll leave the suitable punishment up to you. :-)

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BRAD

09-14-2000 05:06:38

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

WELDING THE NUT ON HAS WORKED REAL WELL FOR ME ALTHOUGH I USUALLY WILL TAKE IT ONE FARTHER .HEAT THE AREA AROUND THE BOLT CAREFULLY BECAUSE ITS CAST.AFTER YOU GET IT GOOD AND HOT HAVE A CUP FULL OF ICE CUBES ON HAND AND PUT AN ICE CUBE DIRECTLY ON THE NUT YOU JUST WELDED ON THE BOLT THIS WILL SHRINK THE BOLT WHILE THE AREA AROUND THE BOLT STAYS HOT AND EXPANDED YOU HAVE TO WORK FAST I'VE TAKEN BOLTS LIKE THAT OUT THAT REQUIRED NO EFFORT TO TURN ONCE I DONE THAT PROCESS.

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Larry

09-14-2000 04:12:38

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

I've read all the suggestions you've got so far, all sound good, I'll add my 2 cents worth. I'm wondering if you've drilled all the way through the broken bolt? This is a last resort method, but I'd suggest taking your torch and cutting and blowing the easy out...out. It will be hard, and you'll have to stop and let your tip cool off a couple of times, but I've done this and its worked for me. The easy out is a different metal and will melt faster, and you'll heat the bolt in the process, which should free up the bolt. I'm guessing you're dealing with a 5/16 bolt, so its gonna be a tricky proposition to do it, but if all else fails give it a try. The real drawback to heating broken studs and bolts is that you're actually hardening them when you heat them, therefore, I always attempt to drill all the way through them and have a fairly good sized hole, so if all else fails you're not trying to drill a hole in a bolt thats so hard its almost impossible to drill through. One more suggestion....don't use cheap easy outs...I've had best luck with the ones from Snap On. I didn't see anyone mention this, but one other solution might be to simply ignore the broken bolt---use silicone, and hope it doesn't leak where you've got the broken bolt.

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T_Bone

09-14-2000 05:21:03

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Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Larry, 09-14-2000 04:12:38

To heat metal the cool very quickley will harden the metal.

To heat metal and cool slow will soften metal or anneal the metal.

T_Bone

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Larry

09-15-2000 03:39:18

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Re: Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to T_Bone, 09-14-2000 05:21:03

You're right...I meant, or should have said...if you quinch it with water....Oh, well...I hope he got his bolt out.

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Dick Davis

09-14-2000 03:31:33

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

Really great comments and suggestions! Is there anyone out there that hasn't done this broken extractor trick? AND how many have NEVER resorted to "Part Time from Mich's" beat it into submission tactic? I'm not sure I ever solved the problem with a 3 pound rage but it does seem to temporaily improve my mental health. Dick

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Dick Davis

09-14-2000 03:31:23

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

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Stopping This Problem!

09-14-2000 01:58:55

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

Hi All, If you put anti-seeze(sp) on the bolt threads upon reassembley, then you will never have this problem again. Use very small amount!

Something else that helps get a tap or easyout is to use dry ice, as the dry ice will freeze the part and when you hit it with a center punch it will shatter but heat always seams to work best for me.

T_Bone

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Andy Martin

09-14-2000 20:03:24

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Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Stopping This Problem!, 09-14-2000 01:58:55

T-Bone is right. If you are not using anti-sieze on everything subject to corroding, you should, including muffler clamp bolts and wheel clamp bolts.

On a muffler clamp you can't tell its there after several years, until you remove the nuts.

All auto parts stores carry it, a nickel based compound under several trade names.

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Andy Martin

09-13-2000 20:23:44

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

It was only dumb if you were turning it the wrong way. If bolts are frozen, and corroded, as Farmall water pump bolts generally are, they can break for anybody.

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ltf in nc

09-13-2000 19:51:24

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

Do you have a welder or access to one? If so, get a washer that will just fit the broken bolt and hold it in place over the broken bolt and weld the broken bolt to the washer. A large outer diameter washer works best. Once you get this accomplished get a nut and weld it to the washer. Now you have a means to attach a wrench to the broken bolt and it should come out readily. I removed a manifold bolt using this method just last week from one of those green machines after a neighbor spent the bulk of a day attempting to get one out. Good luck and post your results

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Andy Martin

09-13-2000 20:19:43

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Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to ltf in nc, 09-13-2000 19:51:24

The welding trick (if you can get to the piece to weld on it) works very well, mainly because it puts intense heat directly on the broken piece. the heat swells the bolt and breaks the rust seal.

I first used the method on my Chevy 350 which I was backing into my shop with a load of sand. The edge of the concrete floor caught the muffler and broke off four of the six exhaust pipe to manifold bolts. They all screwed out by hand after welding nuts to them.

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Sven

09-13-2000 19:50:44

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

If I did that, and I hope I never do, I might try using a dremel tool with a grinding bit. Depends on how much of the hard stuff you have to get out.

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SHARKEY

09-13-2000 19:34:08

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Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to Ben, 09-13-2000 19:24:07

I did something similar last year on the Cylinder head on my Farmall C. I twisted off a manifold stud, then while trying to extract it with an easyout I did the same thing you did. I took it to a machine shop to remill and to remove the easyout. The machinist there chastised me, (like you and I already didn't do that) and told me toooo bad. Ended up the head was cracked and needed replaced anyway. Sorry I wasn't any help, but I feel your pain.

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Dick

09-16-2000 06:56:49

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Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to SHARKEY, 09-13-2000 19:34:08

There are devices that remove broken taps, drills EZ Outs etc. At Caterpillar's Decatur plant we call them tap burners and use them to remove broken cutting tools from production parts.
They use a tubular metal "electrode" from which
an arc is established. The electrode oscillates
up and down slightly, coolant flows through the electrode and removes "burned" tap/drill material. Once a hole is "bored" through the tap/drill we use a small punch or chisel to break
out the remainder. Works well. Any BIG machine
shop should have one of these.

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JOE

09-13-2000 20:11:45

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Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to SHARKEY, 09-13-2000 19:34:08

Using a center punch, tap on the easyout with a small hammer in a clockwise motion as the easyout works in a counterclockwise motion.This will usually loosen it up.

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S-E Michigan Part Timer

09-13-2000 20:20:11

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Re: Re: Re: Dumb Act of the Day!! in reply to JOE, 09-13-2000 20:11:45

I agree with Sharkey. Hopefully there's enough e-z out or bolt outside the hole to do some of these ideas. If all else fails, grab a punch and a 3 lb. hammer, get real pee'd off and beat the heck out of the e-z out. Those and taps alike are pretty brittle and I've had "success" pulling out the fragments once I catch my breath.. haha!

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