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Is it possible?

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Bergen

12-08-2000 22:23:37

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Is it possible that my Super H, #2767, was built before my H, #391560? The Super H has an H transmission housing with all the holes for the band brake covers,and it was cast 6-7-1952 or thereabouts. The H tranny housing doesn't have the holes for the band brake covers and was cast 1-9-1953. THe Super H does have the Super H transmission, and it appears to all be original. Incidently, the brake cover holes are stuffed with pegs of wood!

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Harold Hubbard

12-10-2000 09:08:09

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Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:23:37

When I was a kid, our hired man smashed the transmission housing on our Super C. Dad bought a new one from IH, and it was drilled for the C band brakes. I suspect that the same thing might have happened with your tractor.

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Jim Becker

12-11-2000 10:59:57

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Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Harold Hubbard, 12-10-2000 09:08:09

It is not unusual for replacement parts to be designed as "universal replacement" parts to reduce parts inventories. Some times they are versions that were never used in original production.

I haven't seen much of that from IH. It is pretty common from GM.

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Easy_Irv

12-09-2000 19:30:36

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Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:23:37

I have worked in an engine plant for 22 years, plus some years in the gage business. Letting castings age is still practiced for some high accuracy components, gage bases and some machine bases. Although I have never been in a tractor plant, I have seen "rolling" model changes for cars and engines. Occasionally a hybrid gets made, the usual practice is making it a company car - never to be released to the public, maybe for crash testing or a mule for some test. Irv

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Bobduck

12-09-2000 12:52:58

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Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:23:37

Don't know if this helps but about a year ago I looked at a Super M which seemed to be a cross between a SM and a regular M. It did not have the live hydraulic pump running off the distributor but rather had the regular M belly pump.

However, it did have the Super M disc brakes and battery location under the seat.

The serial number suggested it was manufactured just when the Super M was coming out so maybe it was a composite.

The serial number had the Super M prefix.

Hope this helps but probably only confirms the idea that sometimes we just don't know.

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12-09-2000 15:49:23

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Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bobduck, 12-09-2000 12:52:58

That was a stage one Super M.Stage two had the live hydraulics.

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Stage 1.5

12-09-2000 16:52:47

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Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to RB, 12-09-2000 15:49:23

Stage one had the M seat. There was a stage between the 1 and live hydro pump with the belly pump and the battery under the seat,not a lot of them but I have one also.

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Bergen

12-08-2000 22:27:14

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Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:23:37

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that I finally got the '50 H with the Heisler hand clutch moving today. After a year and a half, I bought a rotary cutting tool from WalMart and made clutch discs for it. Beats spending $300 at a machine shop any day!!

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H MN

12-09-2000 08:37:27

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Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:27:14

Bergen: I had rear end parts fail on a '53 SMD when it was a couple years old and parts were wedged\pulled around under the big bull gear against the bottom of the rear end and the IHC shop people said its lucky the rear end casting wasn't SPLIT OPEN. Maybe yours had damage and it was replaced with an older rear end? Why not? Many have replaced engines blocks or trannys etc
Who knows after 40-50 years what every rearend has had happen to it. harvey

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Bergen

12-09-2000 09:15:15

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Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to H MN, 12-09-2000 08:37:27

That's a possibility, though the tractor doesn't appear to have been used for hard work much because the hole in the swinging drawbar isn't wore too much at all. However, the U bar is bent down right in the middle so who knows, maybe the swinging bar was replaced along the line somewhere. Lots of unanswered questions.

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To Bergen again

12-09-2000 14:12:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen, 12-09-2000 09:15:15

Hi Bergen: Wheather or not your tractor shows any wear doesn't make any difference in breaking the rear end casting. Our wasn't much more than two years old when I was plowing and "BANG" the rear end sustained major damage. It's not a matter of lots of work at all. It was under load and had a sudden failure. Had our rear casting split open, we might have grabbed any other casting that was handy since it was during a very busy time of the season. Nobody cared about casting codes back then. If it fit,use it. harvey

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The Red

12-09-2000 02:41:05

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Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen , 12-08-2000 22:27:14

Bergen I know from earlier discussions that the early 1940 Hs had 1939 castings. A lady in our insurance department has a son with an early 1940 H with most of the major castings dated 1939. IH stockpiled some parts before ramping up production. I'm sure someone will have the exact answer on your Super H/H question.

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Bergen

12-09-2000 06:33:39

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Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to The Red, 12-09-2000 02:41:05

I was aware that they probably stockpiled parts, but I can't conceive that they would have that sort of a mixup. Then again they wouldn't condemn a tractor for having the technically wrong housing on it.

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The Red

12-09-2000 06:37:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to Bergen, 12-09-2000 06:33:39

It would appear to be a factory boo boo.

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ltf in nc

12-09-2000 06:00:15

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Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to The Red, 12-09-2000 02:41:05

Red, I use to work for a company that used lots of castings. Fifty years ago it was common practice for the castings to remain outside for up to a year or more prior to being machined. This practice was to let the raw castings stabilize or self relieve themselves of stress. The reduced inventory push and improvements in casting techniques in the 80s did away with this practice. They would also test for leaks in the castings by letting kerosene stand in the castings and observing for wetting on the exterior. This leak test practice is still used in India but now most castings are either coated internally or backfilled under pressure with a sealant.

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Jim Becker

12-11-2000 10:53:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to ltf in nc, 12-09-2000 06:00:15

I am under the impression that the practice of seasoning raw castings was the major reason date codes were cast in the first place.

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The Red

12-09-2000 06:02:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to ltf in nc, 12-09-2000 06:00:15

Interesting information. It's Saturday and I learned something today. :)

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Dick Davis

12-10-2000 04:53:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is it possible? in reply to The Red, 12-09-2000 06:02:06

Your right, very interesting thread. Several aspects not previously discussed, thanks to all the contributors.

I was thinking, if the fellows working on the assembly line 55 years ago had known y'all would become so passionate about correctness of casting numbers. They would have had an absolute ball making "special editions" we would never be able to explain!

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