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Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!!

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jfk, jr

09-08-2002 18:49:14

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OK NATPA members....here's what they appear to be saying is legal now! Bear has a 360 diesel block (at least 1/8 inch shorter than the correct block), so that should DQ him instantly! Now we have 2 IH v-8 heads (two 4 cylinder heads,with 1 cylinder cut off each one) and then butted the two 3 cylinder heads together and machined/welded together to make a inline 6 for this block!! How far can the rules be stretched by one person. Ask yourself this, if you decided to do something like this, would the NATPA let you be legal? I doubt it! If this is allowed, NATPA loses all members respect for fair play/rule enforcing. This is going to open up a can of worms. They are unaware of othe brands that can do this also, and bigger, too! Also heard the tranny was a complete fabrication. This either should be DQ'd, allowed to run exhibition only, or add a new division for a tractor like this with later model years, like our 4010 JD's!! What does everyone else think?? Pretty wrong deal I think!

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TimC

09-09-2002 11:54:07

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Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jfk, jr, 09-08-2002 18:49:14

If the block is 29.5 (i think) inches or shorter, of the I-H brand, The head is of I-H brand then it is legal.

Thats what the rules say.

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WTW

09-11-2002 07:15:07

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Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to TimC, 09-09-2002 11:54:07

The "Rules" say (head) NOT head(s). But what difference would that make anyway since when has the NATPA ever enforced there own rules and more yet since when has a director or board member ever had to abide by them. Only one way to get ahead of this crooked click is quit supporting it! Whining about it or attending rules meeting won't help. Just ask the members who voted on the Allis RPM advantage? Might want to ask Mr. Burch on that one.

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Burch/Bear

09-11-2002 07:41:46

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Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to WTW, 09-11-2002 07:15:07

we'll see if Burch gives into Bear and give Bear his vote for being legal. It wouldn't surprise me to see Burch and rest of the board "back down" and let Bear run....IT IS NOT RIGHT!! Burch would gain some respect IF he has guts enough to take a stand and eliminate this mess!

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Won't Happen!

09-11-2002 10:47:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Burch/Bear, 09-11-2002 07:41:46

These two big shots take turn kissing each others a$$. This time it Burches turn to kiss Bears. Bend over Big Bill and let little Bill do the honors!

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mike

09-09-2002 12:53:06

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Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to TimC, 09-09-2002 11:54:07

SO, it also says "recognized replacement manufacturer" on heads..will anyone walk into their IH(case) dealership, tell parts guy his head went bad, need a new one for the 'ol 460, and parts guy gives him a modified v-8 head?? NO! This is where the line must be drawn! Oh yeah, here's a crossover piece to put on you exhaust manifold he says to run it over to the correct side so everyone thinks it is normal under there! If this is allowed, you're buddy who has Tilley's 'ol 88 better not pulled 4500 div 5 anywhere NATPA then! (does he anyway??)

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TimC

09-09-2002 14:11:16

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Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to mike, 09-09-2002 12:53:06

You have to read the rules the way they are written.

(Heads, blocks (jug),s manifolds must be of the same manufacturer as the crank case or that of a replacement MFGer.

Any I-H gas head is legal in a 460.
You might have a point on the Massey 1100 head on an oliver. However Waukashau (spelling?) built the crankcase. 1100 massey head is Waukashau.
If that is a problem then take away any pull by Bill Bear on an 880, Gregg Tilley on an 88, Brad Begeman on an 88 and probably Adrian Cox because most 88 olivers are running the 1100 head.

I don't care either way but by the rules the 460 is legal.. just the way i see it, knowing my opinion is not important because i don't pull, don't want to pull and wouldn't given the option anyway..... .. 1.5 cents worth.

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Greg H.

09-09-2002 10:28:36

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Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jfk, jr, 09-08-2002 18:49:14

Sounds like he's found a set up that's working. Do any of you all that complain about these hot tractors on the net actually ever file a formal protest, or question the techs at the pulls? I think that would be the most constructive way to handle these problems. Although or if you are a large man, and don't mind the physical altercation, or battery arrest record, accuse the man of cheating to his face. Either way would be more effective, and I know the latter would be more of a crowd pleaser, than most of the hooks. Just quit complaining. If your tractor won't pull with his buy one like it, and desicrate it's power train. Then you can be a winner too.

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Augie

09-09-2002 09:33:17

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Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jfk, jr, 09-08-2002 18:49:14

I don't know if that thing is legal or not, and I don't really care because I don't pull Div5 (or NATPA for that matter), but I saw it pull Saturday night.

You Div5 guys better figure out a way to get rid of that thing, or get ready to spend some big buck$ to keep up cuz it runs like a scalded dog.

Bear beat Adrian Cox's tractor and two Brooks tractors in the 4500lb class. It wasn't even close...

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Mike in Mo

09-09-2002 15:41:05

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Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Augie, 09-09-2002 09:33:17

Augie
You're right about the way it runs- I'd guess about 15+ mph ground speed (loose track, long chain). Louis & Ben's Minnie probably had about the same tire speed in the 5500 but it's hard to get the nose up on that ole GVI. It should be a better contest in Columbia come November. Did'ja see the data ports on the side? Mike

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Augie

09-10-2002 09:09:27

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Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Mike in Mo, 09-09-2002 15:41:05

The kids were pretty well shot from spending all day out in the heat. We didn't stick around after the 4500 Div5 was over, so I missed seeing the G-VI's pull. Didn't notice the data ports either, but I'm not surprised. If I'd invested the amount of cash that thing cost I'd want to know what it was doing.

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Mike

09-09-2002 05:41:56

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Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jfk, jr, 09-08-2002 18:49:14

What makes you think that the heads are IH. I think they're Ford Boss 429 (hemi) heads. Since Ford/ New Holland now owns Case/IH a Ford head would be legal!!
(Just stirrin'the the rumor mill)

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09-09-2002 16:22:29

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Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Mike, 09-09-2002 05:41:56

So why stop with the hemi head and just go with the V-8 hemi?

Who'd of thought that freedom of speech in the 1776 era would mean that it is legal to burn the american flag in 2002?

Sometimes when rules are written they aren't written with thoughts of all the circumstances because it would take too long and too many people to enforce.

You have to hand it to the engineering side of the issue.

The issue isn't with Bear, the issue is with the NATPA rules and how they are written. Once written, they also have to be governed and enforced.

Just think of the savings taking junk heads and making them useful again..... ..... ..... .....

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Scott Boehler

09-09-2002 19:08:50

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Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to KB, 09-09-2002 16:22:29

K.B. You are right it is the way the rules are writen. I hope that this will open the eyes of the members, so they will pay attention when their
class comes up for vote and pay attentoin to how the rules are written. Scott

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hey SB

09-09-2002 20:23:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Scott Boehler , 09-09-2002 19:08:50

so, you are trying to say that this "fabricated" setup IS legal??? natpa will forever will viewed as letting a board member have his way!! you are now allowing component tractors essentially...hey jordan lustik, if the unlimited SS doesn't work out, bring the silver bullet to the natpa!!

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ihc 450

09-08-2002 20:01:51

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Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jfk, jr, 09-08-2002 18:49:14

Well ..... ..he does run div 5? right? how would you feel about getting beat by Gary Kavanaugh from Laurel,Ne with a bored and stroked motor done by Jacks automotive in Hooper ,Ne..... .this is pulled in Div II!!!!! I thought that kinda work was really against the rules!!! And he has won national titles with this tractor!!!!! Maybe some one should call him out on this one!!!! But there should be a whole bunch of you guys chapped about this major rule violation!!!!! and he is continuing to do it!

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tim

09-08-2002 20:32:40

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Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to ihc 450, 09-08-2002 20:01:51

hey ih450, just cause it's div 5 doesn't mean it is right! if that's the case, you can't see what the guy you're saying is doing, do it's div 2 isn't it, can't see must be ok..is that the attitude you really want to get started!

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Fullpullking

09-09-2002 14:16:45

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Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to tim, 09-08-2002 20:32:40

Well, It looks like Bear has done his homework! The rules should say no homemade heads and must retain tractor engine. What did a 360 motor come out of anyway? Crossflow heads that are on gas shouldn't be allowed in div. 5, they need to be left in in the Super modified antique class!! If it wasn't a factory gas head, then it shouldn't be able to be on gas!! But I'll give him credit, cause he has ya'll by the balls!!!

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jim

09-09-2002 17:56:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to Fullpullking, 09-09-2002 14:16:45

I really like to see someone with new and inovative ideas!!!!! Pull on MR .Bear!!! I'm glad you are a free thinker and arent afraid to try anything new!!! I cant wait to see this thing run in person!!

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and I can't wait to see the 450 diesel clean house in div 2!!!

09-09-2002 18:28:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to jim, 09-09-2002 17:56:29

duh!!!!! !!!

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Wich is it

09-17-2002 20:39:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bear's 460 with v-8 heads on it!!! in reply to and I can't wait to see the 450 diesel clean house in div 2!!!, 09-09-2002 18:28:12

I was at the Mo State Fair and they told eveyone in the stands that it was a German deisel Block, Now it seems to have changed to a DT 360 block. German or DT360 neither one is the same length as the 301, get the spec book out. Wonder who will have the ruler when he has to go through tech at Columbia. Bear him self or His buddie Burch.

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