TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Discussion Forum

NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff???

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

D.J.

09-12-2002 10:40:58

Report to Moderator

Heard the NATPA board will be meeting soon to discuss some "stuff". They are probably going to ask Bear what HE WANTS they to say on why his 460 should be called legal...then he'll take them all out for supper!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Butt Buddies

09-12-2002 18:19:17

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to D.J., 09-12-2002 10:40:58

Yea I heard the same thing, all the board members are going to line up and take turns kissing Bill Bears a$$. Then he will buy all them supper!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

how true!

09-12-2002 18:42:23

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Butt Buddies, 09-12-2002 18:19:17

If they let him run, THIS will be worse than anything the mafia/Harsgfield EVER did!! This will top them all!!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

concerned member

09-12-2002 14:35:54

Report to Moderator

Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to D.J., 09-12-2002 10:40:58

Hopefully at this meeting the board will realize by the rules that if the block is 1/8 of and inch too short, it is NOT legal! This isn't horseshoe throwing, being close is not the same as right. Unless they get this issue resolved correctly, people will be able to bolt whatever they want to in a chassis so long as it is the right # of cylinders.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Factory Documentation Proves It Is Wrong Length!!

09-12-2002 18:07:24

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to concerned member, 09-12-2002 14:35:54

Went to local CASE/IH dealership...they looked up blueprints on the 460/560 blocks and the 360/312 block versions...hey guess what...it IS 1/8" shorter!!! NOT THE SAME LENGTH AS THE RULES STATES!!! These rules were made by the pullers for the pullers...not by the board for the board (members)....please board, check this out yourselves, or at Colombia, MO a possible riot could take place over this injustice!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Winner

09-12-2002 20:10:50

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Factory Documentation Proves It Is Wrong Length!!, 09-12-2002 18:07:24

No problem, just change the rule so the block can't be any longer than original. No big deal!!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Winner

09-13-2002 06:52:41

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Winner, 09-12-2002 20:10:50

Don't you read the Hook? The president (not elected by the membership)stated the problems. No bouncing othe seat, and tractors not like an H or a B in 3250. They will be pusillanimaus.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

yes, what problems!

09-13-2002 07:18:07

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Winner, 09-13-2002 06:52:41

they "wish" that was their problem, not an illegal 460 that they are being told to call legal by fellow board member Bear

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Whatever

09-12-2002 20:47:49

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Winner, 09-12-2002 20:10:50

Are you also going to change the rule so that manifolds don't have to be made by the block manufacturer (or a recognized remanufacturer)? IH never made an intake OR exhaust manifold to fit that head setup: two v-8 heads combined to make a six-cylinder, give me a break. That right there makes it illegal, never mind having an illegal length block (by the clearly stated rules), and possibly having an illegal rearend to go along with it. If you let that block in, you're letting 466's and whatever else to bolt in. Bottom line is this: The board CANNOT be pusillanimous on this matter and let Bear force this through.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

A.P.

09-13-2002 02:22:18

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Whatever, 09-12-2002 20:47:49

the manifold rule should kill a lot of the four cylinder Molines pulling in div. 5. Most of them are running modified 800HD manifolds. They came from the factroy as six cylinders not four.

A.P.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MM Manifolds

09-13-2002 09:04:54

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to A.P., 09-13-2002 02:22:18

The MM now have new "cast from MM molds" 4 cylinder intake manifolds. Just look at the latest "Hook". These manifold are more "legal" than the Jerry JD manifolds that are allowed in ALL NATPA classes.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jon Aller

09-13-2002 09:21:57

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifolds, 09-13-2002 09:04:54

I saw the add. Are these newly cast from an old mold that someone discovered? Or did someone modify an old 6 cylinder mold to make a 4 cylinder manifold?

If this was an original mold, what was the original application for the manifold?

Just curious,

Jon Aller

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MM Manifolds

09-13-2002 09:35:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Jon Aller, 09-13-2002 09:21:57

All I know is they're new cast iron manifolds. I don't know where the molds came from. The new MM manifold is the same as a HD605B manifold only for a 4 cylinder. It is from a late HD403B-4B power unit motor.

What are the Jerry's JD manifold? Aren't they custom made manifolds for pulling. JD never made a manifold like it and they are being used in all divisions.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

G-MAN

09-13-2002 10:28:07

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifolds, 09-13-2002 09:35:35

JD did make a gasoline conversion manifold for the "G", and I believe it was part number F1074. You can still find these JD manifolds here and there. "A"s and "B"s were also available as gasoline tractors, so you could also swap a newer intake and head onto an older tractor and still have parts from the same manufacturer.
Obviously, the Jerry's manifold is an improvement over these JD pieces, but what would the point of creating a new mold exactly the same be? How do you know if the new MM manifolds are identical to the originals, and not modified in some way? If you're going to use a new manifold, you may as well see some performance increase. A stock F1074 could be ported out and modified to increase horsepower too, which would maintain the outer stock appearance. Isn't that how the rules read? Stock parts, appearance etc and really nothing about what's on the inside of those stock parts? No matter what happens with the rules, somebody will still be upset. That's just the way it works. The only way around it is to set rules in stone and tear down every tractor after every pull, comparing the specs of every part to factory spec, and obviously nobody is going to go for that.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jon Aller

09-13-2002 09:46:08

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifolds, 09-13-2002 09:35:35

I think Jerry's are his design, but I don't know. I don't know why they are allowed in DIV 3 and lower, if they are custom made and not stock in appearence.

So, this MM manifold is actually a newly cast version of the HD403B-4B manifold.

Jon

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MM Manifold

09-13-2002 10:24:51

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Jon Aller, 09-13-2002 09:46:08

The HD403B-4B is the model number of the motor. The manifold is what the motor would have had on it when it came from the factory. I do not know the casting number for the manifold.

What about Lemmon's 450 LP head?? They are NOT a copy of a true 450 LP head. He only calls them that so no one will complain about it. He has fooled everybody.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jon Aller

09-13-2002 11:55:28

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifold, 09-13-2002 10:24:51

I agree whole heartedly. This business of recasting parts that sort of look like the original, but are totaly different, bastardizes the entire system. I don't think that any of the products mentioned here were within the "intent" of the governing bodies that wrote the NATPA rules many years ago. But, over time onesy twosy these things have been snuck in and grandfathered. I have said it before and I will say it again, DIV V reminds me of the NTPA of the late 60's with a goofy rpm limitation.

Not to beat the horse to death, but you are saying that the MM manifold is a 6 cylinder mold modified to make a 4 cylinder manifold.

Thanks,

Jon

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MM Manifold

09-13-2002 12:26:43

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Jon Aller, 09-13-2002 11:55:28

The new manifolds are for a 4 cylinder motor. They were origanaly made for a four cylinder motor. They are recast from the original MM molds that were made for a four cylinder motor. The motor that they were used on was a HD403B-4B. That motor is a four cylinder motor.

NOTICE: EVERYTHING WAS AND IS FOR A FOUR CYLINDER MOTOR.

Is that clear enough?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

A.P.

09-13-2002 12:43:13

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifold, 09-13-2002 12:26:43

Glad to hear that the Moline pullers have a source for a good manifold and can stop cutting down HD 800 maifolds. Some day I would like to be able to build an HD800 if there will be any manifolds left. Does the HD403-4B engine use HD800 heads or 605 heads?

Take care,
A.P.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MM Manifold

09-13-2002 12:52:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to A.P., 09-13-2002 12:43:13

They used mostly 10A4230 and 10A4231 on the HD403.

The 10A4227 10A4228 and 10A4229 (HD800) heads were only used on the HD800.

Don't get confused because of the "HD". MM also made a HD605 HD504 HD403 HD336 and even a HD220 and others.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

A.P.

09-13-2002 13:01:25

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifold, 09-13-2002 12:52:35

Sorry about getting confused by the HD designation. I take it that the new manifold will have to be ported quite a bit to match up to the HD800 heads? I checked on Jerry's site but port sizes aren't listed for the various heads.

Take care,
A.P.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jon Aller

09-13-2002 12:39:59

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifold, 09-13-2002 12:26:43

Got it.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Just Another Lemmon's Fiasco

09-13-2002 11:17:50

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to MM Manifold, 09-13-2002 10:24:51

True on the recast heads..they are NOT like original IH 450 LP heads...lots of performance tricks done inside there!! Wake up boys, Lemmon's isn't Mr Goody Two Shoes!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Seamo

09-13-2002 18:35:12

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NATPA board to meet soon to discuss stuff??? in reply to Just Another Lemmon's Fiasco, 09-13-2002 11:17:50

I think the common sense approach on this casting thing is this if you copy a casting and use the manufactures part number or its insignia such as JD. IHC. Example 10A 4213 F48R F550R If they are on a casted block or head isn't that illegal as far as the OE manufacture is concerned.If you have a block or head and it doesnt have the right numbers you know its wrong. You cant make a DEERE belt buckle without there permission and the FEE. TSC Power blocks, HEISLER Heads,JOHNSON Manifolds were easy to ID What do you think??? This has bothered me for a long time. Ask CASE--IH what the law is .ASK Deere what they think.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy