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OEM or copper gasket?

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burns

05-28-2001 19:47:41




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While I was pulling our Farmall 400 today, my JD G sat in the shop because water was leaking into the #2 cylinder. I bought and installed a copper gasket from Lubbocks because I felt I would need it running 11.5:1 CR. Since the purchase date, I have cut that down to 9.5-10:1.

Before I pull the head, I was wondering if any of you folks have had similar set backs. What did you do to correct the problem? Should I go back to the OEM head gasket from Deere? I have retorqued the head +10lbs more.

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Sam R

06-15-2001 05:17:02




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
I don't know if this qualifies as great advice, but I'm pulling my newly overhauled 44' JD B with a lot more displacemnt and compression than original. It has 4 7/8" Bore and 7 1/4" stroke using a late model B block. The TDC is around 3/8" to the top of the deck. I know it's not much, compared to the monstrous G's, but I used the regular JD head gasket on it. People at NAPA advised me to use copper gasket spray on all the surfaces. Then I ever so "gently" torqued it down to 120 lbs. There was a concern about "blowing" the head gasket, but so far it's doing fine. Last week it placed 4th in 3500, (too heavy in the front) 2nd in 4000 (in a pull off), and 3rd in 4500 (an inch from a pull off with 1st and 2nd). Not bad for it's first pull. BTW, Burns, I like the G. Haven't seen a G I didn't like. Now I'll have to set my sights on getting my own.

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compression and gaskets

05-29-2001 20:01:04




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
Burnout, What is wrong. Several months ago you stated "high compression is the way to go". Followers of the message board should remember this. Now we find you are decompressing like the ones you insulted. We want to know what happened! Soft copper head gaskets leak threw the pours of the copper itself. There is nothing you can do. Bars leaks helps but it will not cure the situation. Be careful with the oil as coolant may show up there. Later

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burns

05-30-2001 03:15:03




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to compression and gaskets, 05-29-2001 20:01:04  
First don't twist my words. Yes compression is cheap HP and NO I did not insult the low comp people. I personally don't feel 9.5-10:1 is "low" compression, however it is lower compared to the 11.43:1 I was once at. I would be happy to discuss the compression topic again. Just as soon as you sprout some balls and quit hiding behind an alias name.



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More or less on compression

05-30-2001 17:04:28




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 Re: Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-30-2001 03:15:03  
Burnsy, Easy now boy don't have a heart attack. You are the one that openly denounce the low compression theory. I wish the message board had not flushed those posts. You are also the one that claimed to have a Doctorate. Your lack of patience and understanding of porosity speaks volumes to your intelligence. I am glad you have seen the light of low compression and am glad you are adjusting it to suit the modern theory.

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Burns

05-30-2001 17:45:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to More or less on compression, 05-30-2001 17:04:28  
The Doctor was a label given to me by one of my "other brand friends". I was given the label of King of the Dumb answers, a$$hole (I prefer to think of myself as the whole a$$). Who knows you may be the author of one of these fine labels. BTW just out of curiosity, what does this discussion have anything to do with head gaskets? Drop me an email and we can discuss new names/labels.

My dear friend, I find as much humor in some of these posts (mine included) as I do listening to a bunch of truckers on the CB radio. If I have a heart attack, it will be from laughing. If I was really hardcore, I'd join the NATPA!

Just to set the record. If I had two identical tractors of the same brand/model, year, tires, bore, stroke, head, valves, etc.... EXCEPT for the compression ratio, static/dynamic psi values. I don't think there would be any arguement over which one would provide more operating power. There are clearly to many variables to determine what is considered "high" by definition. In My Humble Opinion, anything over 9:1 would fall under the label of high compression. If someone feels that their tractor can out perform another tractor with a lower compression engine, then they are certainly welcome to have their opinion. I don't agree but that is only my opinion. Speaking of opinions, what is your thoughts on the high vs low. Pleaze deminstrat a hi her level of inteligenze then I. ;')

Peace

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Goldsburg

05-29-2001 07:38:06




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
Burnsy!

What are you doing running a copper head gasket????? I would have expected something a little more innovative from you! You should know that copper head gasket "technology" went out with zoot suits and button down shoes!

Call Lubbock gasket back, ask to speak with David. Have him set you up with a K1000 material gasket with crimped in fire rings! I have successfully used this type of gasket on LARGE 4 cyl engines with up to 11.8 to 1 compression with NO troubles! I have even re-used these gaskets (in a pinch) without failure. You must supply a pattern for the gasket, but at approximately $85.00, they are half the price of copper pieces. Otherwise depending on price versus availability, you should go with stock gaskets. Stock gaskets will not work with the bore sizes that I run.... DO NOT WASTE ANY MORE OF YOUR TIME OR MONEY ON COPPER GASKETS!!!! IF YOU DO, YOU ARE A SCREAMING MORON!!!!

Did I get my point across?

Love,

Goldsburg

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Allen P.

05-29-2001 18:26:03




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to Goldsburg, 05-29-2001 07:38:06  
Copper for head gaskets may be outdated but I paid a lot less for the copper to make my gasket than the number you quote. Plus you get the satisfaction of doing it yourself. The copper head gasket can be used again and again. The only pinch is accomplished by the head bolts and the "O" ring.

I do have to admit the $80 price you mention is low enough that I will give it a try next time.

Allen P.

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pete

05-29-2001 09:52:04




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to Goldsburg, 05-29-2001 07:38:06  
Goldsburg-you are right...he is a moron...he pulls a deere ( and a G to boot!!)putt,putt,bang,bang



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Greg H.

05-29-2001 13:37:24




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 Re: Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to pete, 05-29-2001 09:52:04  
pete, let me guess, you pull one of those no longer existing company tractors??? That's cool if you do, but what I'm wondering is, Do you even, or have you ever had the occasion to pull a tractor?? Or do you, as I suspect, just invade the discussion forum to make burns, or anyone else who pulls a tractor you don't like angry with your short and dimwitted comments. What's that old saying about arrogance and ignorance going hand in hand. If you've got some intellegence, start answering some hard questions,instead of just the short rude comments. You'd be giving some advice to us unenlighted nuckle draggers who insist on pulling junk tractors. Otherwise, you're just wasting my time and the time of everyone that actually apprechiates the information that is learned here. By the way, if I remember correctly you were downing Farmalls about a week ago, so what name brand do you consider the ultimate pulling machines? I appologise in advance if you get angry, but I just wanted to encourage you to share more wisdom, and less oppinion in your post. Have a nice day Pete, Greg H.

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burns

05-29-2001 09:41:32




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to Goldsburg, 05-29-2001 07:38:06  
I was wondering if I could get a response from my dear friend Goldsburg. How has life been going for ya. Well I am a moron but I guess you could add cheap. I looked at what I spent for the copper gasket and figured I'd might as well use it. Certainly not my best choice in this whole process. My decision was really based on need. I thought I was in the gray area for OEM head gaskets when I looked at cranking pressure and Comp ratio. I sided on the copper feeling that while I really did not need it like I orginally thought, I'd go with the heavier material.

I am disappointed in your email address, nothing regarding Deere. By the way, what is this bad V8? Are you out of the tractor business?

Take care, here is a link to the G. I need to update the pictures

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Babbitt Rod

05-29-2001 04:21:12




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
Hey Burns, be carfull about over tighting the head bolts. 10 lbs. over probly wont hurt anything but awile back a local guy got carried away with a breaker bar and cheater pipe, and cracked both cylinders on his 60. hope you find your leak ain't a cracked head.



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burns

05-29-2001 05:13:05




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to Babbitt Rod, 05-29-2001 04:21:12  
I am fairly sure that the head is not cracked. I had it checked when I bought it. I had it checked when I had it ported/polished. I had it checked at the time that I had it reinforced. Thanks for the info.



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reddog

05-29-2001 03:40:34




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
check head & block deck with straight edge and flashlight if you see any light under s.edge check with feeler guage if over .003 high comp. wont hold.



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burns

05-29-2001 05:14:39




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to reddog, 05-29-2001 03:40:34  
Reddog I had the block face and head face both decked prior to installation. But I will check it if I pull the head off.
Thanks for info



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Allen P.

05-29-2001 03:36:06




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 Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-28-2001 19:47:41  
Burns, the compression you are running now sounds low enough to be able to run the factory head gasket as long as everything is up to spec. but I am not a Deere expert. If you have problems use new heads bolts aor studs. You can always go to steel "o" rings for extrea clamp. Another option if you have problems is to make copper fire rings out of soft copper wire.

The copper gasket shouldn't be a problem to seal though. I have a gas tractor that I pulled with a turbo and a lot of boost. I had problems keeping a head gasket in it until I made my own 1/16" thick copper gasket. Never lost the head gasket despite my best efforts to do so. The tractor has been retired from pulling for a long time (10 years) and still has the copper head gasket in it with no leakage problems. I do have steel o rings in the head to help the clamp on the gasket.

Allen P.

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burns

05-29-2001 05:20:24




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 Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to Allen P., 05-29-2001 03:36:06  
I was going to have the fire ring installed on this particular block but I didn't have it done (not sure why I didn't). I am now wishing I had that ring. I added water to the engine so that I could load it onto the trailer. So far so good after the retorque but loading it onto the trailer is certainly not a test whether or not it is going to hold. Thanks for the info.



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Justin

05-29-2001 17:48:44




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 Re: Re: Re: OEM or copper gasket? in reply to burns, 05-29-2001 05:20:24  
Burns, my G has about 11:1 compression with the factory head gasket. This is the fourth year on the motor with no problems. If I ever changed it though I would go with a gasket from Lubbock's like Goldsburg described. The price isn't too bad and it doesn't hurt to be safe.

Justin



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