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Do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling

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Just wondering

09-25-2002 17:44:09

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Div V seems to be more like an outlaw organization than a part of antique/classic pulling. Seems that with all the powere-- helmets, firesuits and other safe guards are needed.

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pulling was o.k., untill.........

09-25-2002 21:18:13

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Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Just wondering, 09-25-2002 17:44:09

Why would any club leaders in their right minds let anyone put V-8 heads on a 460 Farmall! NATPA board is the laughing stock of the antique pulling world for letting Bear run them!!

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bill

09-25-2002 18:00:40

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Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Just wondering, 09-25-2002 17:44:09

Where do you think antique pulling came from? The guys who use to pull in the old super classes of the late 60s and early 70s started calling themselves antique and having a class that they could pull in they were not competitive any more. I have been pulling antiques for over 23 years and have seen a lot of changes but antique was never about pulling stock tractors thats what stock classes are for. If you look at antique pulling today you will see the same thing happening div 4 tractor dropping to div 3 and div 3 down to div 2 so they can be competitive again. Tractor pulling is supposed to be a competitive sport not a place for week kneed tractors that need a lot of rules to be competitive.

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Jason Foley

09-26-2002 17:10:17

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Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to bill, 09-25-2002 18:00:40

Well, my father has been pulling for 30plus years. He had one of the first super stocks ever built. We both still pull superstocks today, but just like antiques or anything it's all about who has the most money. I have built quite a few antique pullers but I end up selling them because I hate this division stuff period. years ago to me it used to be fun, you had guys putting there own stuff together and just taking it out there to see what it would do and having fun while doing it. Now days you got guys just buying whatever it takes to win. Some people don't touch there tractors and have other people build them and what not. It's a joke, what's the poor guy to do that has some good ideas but not a lot of money and all he wants to do is have fun. I mean it's like now you can run into town and come back with a pulling tractor that costs ?12,000? or so. Is it really worth it. run what you built is what I say. It was real fun 20years ago. It's like a moline I had, a little brainstorming and some work, (on my own) and I was getting 120hp. And I maybe had 1500.00 in the whole thing and I beat people that "bought" 8,000 dollar tractors. That was until they stopped building worth a crap tracks, now if you got 20hp you spin out. It's getting worse if you ask me.

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Puller

09-28-2002 19:36:53

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Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Jason Foley, 09-26-2002 17:10:17

Sounds like you need to just quit . You don't even like the tracks either . Is there any thing you do like about tractor pulling Oh yeah since when is it against a law for a person to spend thier money on something they realy like any way. Did you ever conscider that the person who bought a pulling tractor WORKED for the money to buy that tractoy , maybe even nights and week ends . Oh yeah how about the person that built and sold the tractoy . what's the difference ? Didn't he BUILD the STUFF and hoped it work . What's wrong with these two people or could YOU just be jealous and maybe even A sore loser. Quit whining and pull . Just for your imformation I've tried it both ways and it's cheaper to buy one than it is to build .YOUR wife will also like pulling a whole lot more too , because insted of you being in the shop screwing with that old tractor . you could be in the house -----ing with her. Ask anyone who knows and they will " if they're honest and have at least an average income " tell you the same thing . GOOD LUCK hope YOUR ATTITUDE CHANGES SOON.

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G-MAN

09-26-2002 07:42:26

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Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to bill, 09-25-2002 18:00:40

I agree with a few of your comments, Bill, but let's not forget about how tractor pulling itself got started - as a way for farmers to have fun and gain bragging rights on their FARM tractors, not some highly modified machine that is suited for nothing but going down the track. I like seeing the big boys run, but I also like seeing tractors that were pulling a disk the day before pulling, too. Antique tractors are nothing more than old FARM tractors - regardless of how much they're modified. The overwhelming majority of antique pullers are the guys that are tinkering with Grandpa's old tractor or are just in it for fun. They have neither the time, money or inclination to spend multiple thousands of dollars on an custom engine, aluminum wheels, fancy paint, and so on. They might make it to a few local pulls, but time, money, jobs and other considerations prevent them from making it to all the big events. Why should these pullers pulling basically stock or slightly modified tractors have to compete against somebody's old Division IV or V tractor that is no longer good enough for that class, and has to be moved down to be competitive? I agree that tractor pulling is supposed to be a competitive sport in some respects, but it's also supposed to be a hobby that everyone involved can enjoy. But like all motorsports, it's becoming a contest for the guys with the most money. I generally have a lot more fun at what I call the "good ole boy pulls", where most of the tractors are working tractors, than I do at full-blown sanctioned pulls. I could care less if I win or lose, but I know there are probably hundreds of guys who have given up antique pulling because they just didn't have the means to compete with the big dogs, and got tired of losing all the time. That sort of thing hurts the entire hobby. My two cents.

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Phil Munson

09-26-2002 14:20:21

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Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to G-MAN, 09-26-2002 07:42:26

It is not unusual, the G man is right. The sport is dead if it becomes a money contest. Let these guys go to the NTPA sort of pulls. I wouldn't go across the road to see a jet engine or a bunch of car engines scream. As a spectator I want to see real farm tractors, not tractive drag rails. There is an element of skill involved that mega big bucks can over come. If I wanted to watch a multi million dollar motor sport I could just stay home and watch TV. I hope that NATPA does not let a few glitzy rich punks wreck an entire fun farm sport. As Yogi said "deja vu all over again"!

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Tracy

09-26-2002 14:12:17

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Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to G-MAN, 09-26-2002 07:42:26

Well said!!! I can remember as a kid going to the county fair and watching local farmers pull their tractors. Now our fairboard doesn't want the antique tractors--they want the "hot rods". Don't get me wrong, I love to see those tractors pull too!!!, but bottom line is that most can't afford to have a play toy like those. We started an antique pulling club 2 years ago in central Ky. just to have a place to take our tractors and play some close to home. Most every tractor that pulls with us could leave the pull and go hook to a piece of equipment and do the work. We have an antique class, open class (for cut tires) and what we call an OUTLAW class. We pull about 2 times each month--just for trophies and as you said "bragging rights" for that week. Doesn't really matter if you win or not--you just go home and try something different for the next week and hope to win. We have proven with the help of radar and the class divisions that spending all that money doesn't always make you a winner. Our club is non profit--the money that is made goes to benefit local area youth and everyone has a good time. I think we all need to remember it is a fun sport that the whole family can participate in. If you are looking for a place to pull and have a good time come pull with us sometime!!! Check out our website.

Central Ky. Antique Pullers

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art

09-26-2002 07:24:35

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Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to bill, 09-25-2002 18:00:40

WELL SAID.

I don't care what they do with Bear.

99% of those being shocked and outraged on here DO NOT PULL in div 4 or 5 anyway. Art

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Mike F

09-26-2002 10:59:43

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Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 07:24:35

I really think that the guys pulling who have that kind of money to spend on a div 4 or 5 tractor, should all be grouped together, I don't mean combining 4 and 5, but everybody really knows where they belong as far as classes, no b.s. here, pull where you belong. Clubs really need to define more of the rules rather than let practically homemade tractors show up then argue it. Nobody is gonna hook to a dyno in front of their competition, so eliminate it and have good enough rules to sanction the pulling tractors you get. Most clubs don't have a dyno or one that is worth hooking to. If your building a tractor, you know early on where you are going to fit in, pull it there and win or lose your at least being honest with your fellow pullers.

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Adam

09-26-2002 11:45:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Mike F, 09-26-2002 10:59:43

I couldn't agree with you more!!!!! There is only one problem with what you said..... "be honest with your fellow pullers." Sorry to say but when it comes to DIV 4 & 5 the word "HONEST" is kicked out the door of the machine shop!

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art

09-26-2002 15:06:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Adam, 09-26-2002 11:45:13

Div 4 or 5 tractors have no buisness on a dyno. Who would want them on one. They are grouped together already! Div 4 and 5! They are expensive to build if they are to be competative. Nobody said they were stock antiques. I sold mine this summer cause I got tired of driving to pulls with only 2 or 3 trators in my class. Even at the nationals in Columbia there were only 8 or 10 in 5500 div5. Built a 150hp div 3 tractor instead so I could pull with 20 or 30 tractors in a class. Probably gonna sell that one too cause it is sickening to hear the whining and grumbling at the antique pulls. Not so much at the pulls, nobody has enough balls to talk to you in person they just cry when you're not around. Art

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G-MAN

09-27-2002 07:17:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 15:06:27

I guess if you feel like you have to have a 150 hp tractor in Division III to prove a point, that's your business. But all you're doing is driving potential competition out of the game, and soon there will only be 2 or 3 tractors pulling in that class. What are you going to do then, drop down into Division II? To be honest, I don't know why anybody even bothers with association pulling, when there are plenty of regular old farm pulls around. A $3 trophy is a $3 trophy, regardless of what is printed on the plaque. I guess most guys are just interested in seeing their name and picture in "The Hook", regardless of what it costs. You could probably buy a picture classified in the magazine for everyone to see for one thousandth of the cash it takes to build a tractor good enough to win at a NATPA pull.

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Who is Doing the Crying!!

09-27-2002 07:07:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 15:06:27

I think the majority is trying to tell you something. To bad you don't catch on!

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Joe Leising

09-26-2002 21:13:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 15:06:27

aRt, anytime you wanna pull you just come to Indiana! I am sure I can find you a pull somewhere that has more than 5 or 6 high dollar tractors per class.

Joe

p.s. it might be a small pond, but ther are some mighty big fish in it.

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Tyler

09-27-2002 07:26:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Joe Leising, 09-26-2002 21:13:47

We went to Rushville Indiana to a pull 2 summers ago. There was one other tractor there for divison 5, there was however a nice turn out of division 2,3, and 4 tractors. We had a goodtime, met alot of nice people and good food. Unfortunatly we can't drive that far to pull every weekend.

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div 4 is dead in OH/IN now

09-27-2002 07:58:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to Tyler, 09-27-2002 07:26:03

all the "Ginger" 88's have blown up and been sold....either div 3 or div 5

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art

09-26-2002 15:23:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 15:06:27

In reference to the posts about the plow tractors and money..... div 2 and 3 are for farm stock type tractors, the speed limit levels the horsepower field. As far as money, it takes money to compete in motor sports. That is why they made the different divisions. If your tractor is not competative in 4 or 5 pull div 3 or 2. This buisness of my tractor can't run with yours so it so yours is definately not legal will wreck the sport faster than anything else. Telling people they can't pull because they spent to much money is bull. Some of the most expensive tractors out there are the big bore long stroke G's and nobody cares until they get beat. Just keep driving people and money away that will work real good. Art

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Phil Munson

09-26-2002 17:54:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: do Div. V tractors really belong in antique/classic pulling in reply to art, 09-26-2002 15:23:09

Appreciate your comments very much Art, even if you don't realize that you have helped define the problem with your own experience. There are very, very few Div IV and Div V machines compared to the many, many DIV I, II, III FARM tractors. Why not, stories abound about ten and fifteen thousand dollar engines in them. Compared to the congenial neighbor who takes a farm tractor to pull and support a benefit for the local community fire auxillary, a lot of the IV and V guys come with an attitude so great that it puts them in the next higher weight class. Who needs them with their condescending behavior? A very small handful of IV & V tractors doesn't amount to very much on a beautiful weekend, while enjoying a good barbeque, with a hundred and a half hooks from the rest of the antique tractor pullers. They ought to go play with themselves.

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