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Bill Bear Bashing

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6030puller

10-06-2002 19:08:28




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New to the pulling page. Whats up with Mr. Bears tractor? Seems like he plays to win.What kind of tractor is he pulling? What he do That is not fair? thanks 6030puller




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Wheels

10-06-2002 20:51:29




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 Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to 6030puller, 10-06-2002 19:08:28  
Mr Bill Bear has a new tractor, a 460 farmall with a IH German diesel block and a custom built head made from two V-8 heads.

There are a few (2-5 would be my guess) people here that are whining about his rig, Rules state that a block has to be original length. This block is allegedly shorter and my guess is the rules were intended to stop people from putting bigger blocks into pullers so they are letting him go. I still have not figured out if head bolt patterns are universal, I don't think you can just drill a new one where you need it.

I think the DT person who made the first reply is the one who has done a majority to the whining about this tractor, DT seems to be the name he used this time. Someone with similar IP #'s has used probabaly 5-10 different names in the last 3 days.

Have a fine day
Wheels

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Jon Aller

10-06-2002 21:08:04




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 Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Wheels, 10-06-2002 20:51:29  
I don't think it is a German diesel. I am almost certain it is an IH DT360 series block. That block is 1/8 inch shorter than the C221 that came in the 460. The heads are two heads from an IH V-8 gasser with one cyl cut off to make two 3 cyl heads. This would give him a cross flow setup with a completely fabricated intake manifold, I am assuming.

I really don't care if they choose to let him run it or not, although it certainly seems to go beyond exploiting a loop hole or two.

A few months ago I posted a topic about the "Next big thing in DIV 5". A lot of people said it could not happen, and yet here it is.

I know that other builders are getting their juices flowing. The possibilities are endless if you just use your imagination.

Jon

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Wheels

10-07-2002 21:10:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Jon Aller, 10-06-2002 21:08:04  
Jon, I stand corrected, I guess I should follow my own advice and not listen to the rumors on this board.

Thanks for starting some positive discussion on this subject.

Wheels



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A.P.

10-07-2002 08:46:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Jon Aller, 10-06-2002 21:08:04  
Jon, I would guess that he is running modified factory manifold(s) (think six cylinder not eight) that have been cut/modified and welded back together. Possibly using an adapter plate between the head and manifolds. Nothing that wasn't already being done. Then again I could be wrong and he could be using a fabricated from scratch manifold. Time will tell.

A.P.



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Goldsburg

10-07-2002 06:59:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Jon Aller, 10-06-2002 21:08:04  
Jon -

You make some very good points. I would like to add that in addition to engine builders imagination flowing, there also has to be quite a bit of cash flowing as well. I believe that this is where most people are getting "hung up" about Bear's tractor, more so than its "legality". The legality of the thing is a more "respectable" argument, however.

Who would have ever thought that it would take a $20,000+ engine to compete in Antique pulling?

What a shame....

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G-MAN

10-07-2002 10:05:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Goldsburg, 10-07-2002 06:59:15  
Goldsburg, I don't have a dog in this fight, thank God, but I had a question for you. Do you think he is laying out that kind of cash to be "competitive" with the others, or just to ensure that they will not be competitive with him. I know Div 4 and 5 are completely different kinds of pulling than anything I have been exposed to, so I was just curious what your take on the overall situation is. I agree that it's a little ridiculous to spend that much money, but I guess it's human nature to try to beat the other guy. And I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone else finds even more loopholes and spends even more cash to try and rub Bear's nose in the dirt.

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Goldsburg

10-08-2002 08:04:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to G-MAN, 10-07-2002 10:05:16  
GMan -

You bring up a good point. He may be trying to spend enough that he is always "out front." If he had someone else do all of the work, which I am speculating is the case, he has most likely spent well in excess of $20,000 to do it. I guess that I was thinking of the "top o' line" G_ng_er_ch Olivers that have a billet crank, billet rods, billet cam, "modified" heads, etc when I mentioned the $20,000. This may be too high of an estimate, but even if its $16,000... what's $4000 among friends?

I have done some of the "exotic" things that are being described with regards to Bear's tractor, and even as a "jobber" it is still not "cheap" for me to do! Then I have to turn around and mark it up to the customer in an attempt to recover my engineering costs, cover overhead, etc. After all of this, there are still no guarantees that these things will "hold together". Such is a consequence of running "out front..."

Regards,

Goldsburg
goldsburg@att.net

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DT

10-06-2002 19:49:12




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 Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to 6030puller, 10-06-2002 19:08:28  
does whatever he wants too, and if it's questioned, gets his puppets to do as he says!!



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HE'S GOT IT, YOU DON'T!!!!!!

10-07-2002 17:00:41




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 Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to DT, 10-06-2002 19:49:12  
spend the money and pull or shut-up and stay home! we're all sick of your whining!!!



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Dave N

10-08-2002 05:22:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to HE'S GOT IT, YOU DON'T!!!!!!, 10-07-2002 17:00:41  
I think that there should be a class be it open, modfied, or div 5 were you can can let your imageation go and let your ability or in some cases your wallet go for it.As long as there are classes for stock or lightly modfied I dont see were the problem is. I personally enjoy building something that is not run of the mill and is different what everyone else. That is also part of the sport. If you cant run with him move to a lower class and he wont be a problem. Dave

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real bright

10-19-2002 15:35:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bill Bear Bashing in reply to Dave N, 10-08-2002 05:22:44  
you ought to go with Bear to ruin some other organization that kind of stuff does not belong in the NATPA, Bear knows it, he just has an ego problem, that he wants to destroy this organization there is places for V-8 modifieds however this is not it, the reason he will not go else-where is his ego!!!

The NATPA does not have pulls at places to accomadate those speeds!! So get your ducks in a row before you start yapping. The NATPA was not formed for the frustrated NTPA hotroders

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