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Sleeves

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A puller

10-27-2002 17:47:30




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Is there a really good way to sleeve a block in a tractor and still be able to run water in it? I need it done, and have no Idea on how to do it. I was thinking about putting a ring of solder(spelling) around it, but, I don't think it would hold up to the compression.
thanks,
A puller




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Seamo

10-28-2002 17:09:00




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 Re: sleeves in reply to A puller, 10-27-2002 17:47:30  
If you E-Mail me I can help you out. Which blocks?? And what bore do you want?? Earl



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A puller

10-28-2002 08:24:12




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 Re: sleeves in reply to A puller, 10-27-2002 17:47:30  
Ya...thanks, but how is it done. I'm wanting to sleeve a moline, and don't know how to keep it from leakin.
thanks alot :)
a puller



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nobody

10-28-2002 21:30:48




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 Re: Re: sleeves in reply to A puller, 10-28-2002 08:24:12  
The problem with the moline is the bottom of the block isn't thick enough to support the sleeve. You need to cut the bottom of the block out an recess a piece of plate up into the block an then weld around perremiter. Then deck it flush an bore your holes with an o-ring groove at the bottom an a shoulder at the top. Use an 800 head gasket as your pattern then u can use a stock head gasket when done. Also it wouldn't hurt to o-ring the top deck to bite into the gasket.

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Ron

10-27-2002 20:09:46




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 Re: sleeves in reply to A puller, 10-27-2002 17:47:30  
I doubt that there are any blocks that can't be sleeved... The 2-Cylinder JD Power Blocks use sleeves...



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Ron

10-29-2002 06:48:21




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 Re: Re: sleeves in reply to Ron, 10-27-2002 20:09:46  
Thanks, Fellas..!!!! I try to be as accurate as possible.....!!

I was sure at least SOME JD power blocks were sleeved, and have heard of problems with keeping the "O rings" sealed.... Sorry if it don't suit everyone.....I am interested in providing help thru experience....I was never an "Official JD mechanic"..altho I am an A&P aircraft mechanic... I have ( and still do ) use 2-cylinder tractors to farm, for the last 50 years...and I do ALL my own repairs, and rebuilds...including changing my own rear tires.....!!! I sure am glad some of you stepped up and reinforced my info...!!! Thank You..!! Ron.

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G Taylor

10-28-2002 07:13:59




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 Re: Re: sleeves in reply to Ron, 10-27-2002 20:09:46  
Ain't so, the power block as cast by TSC did not have sleeves. Used blocks are often sleeved as the cast irn is worn due to being so soft and the pistons are still in good to excellent condition.



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smart one

10-28-2002 11:14:25




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 Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-28-2002 07:13:59  
for as many posts you put up you had better know a little better about what your posting is true good day



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Better Study Your Lesson (WTW)

10-28-2002 08:40:19




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 Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-28-2002 07:13:59  
Power-blocks sold by Tractor Supply Company were all wet sleeved blocks. The sleeves were installed from the back and did not go clear through the full length of the block rather they stopped short at the head end to leave the original bore diameter to support the original / size head gasket. The piston were installed and remove from the rear of the cylinder. Bores in the block were also moved to the outside of the original bore center line to achieve the larger bore diameters. The Power-block pistons do not run on the center of the connecting rod. Some models were off center more so than others with the model "B" being the most drastic. Wet sleeves in these Power-blocks were not ever intended to be serviced or bored but have been by many tractor pullers. Sleeves were installed with a interference fit with one o-ring at each end of them to seal them. Fact not fiction. Dave W.

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G Taylor

10-28-2002 18:33:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to Better Study Your Lesson (WTW), 10-28-2002 08:40:19  
I don't know what TSC powerblock you were looking at but the 5-3 we just put in the 50 had no sleeves from the TSC casting plant. It was worn to 5.018 and 5.019 while the aluminium pistons were 4.996. We dry sleeved it to 5.002 leaving approx .125" new metal. The block is one peice cast. There certainly is a significant offset to the bores inwards not outawrds to keep the block narrow enough to fit between the frame rails and still circulate water around the entire bore with the larger dia.

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WTW

10-29-2002 07:38:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-28-2002 18:33:37  
What you got sounds like a Power-block and pretty sure it is. I have had every Power-block model ever made in my hands one time or another including the 5-3 that you are referring to and all were wet sleeved blocks. So if you have a cast version you got something that I never seen. The cylinders are closer to each other in the center because of the bore size increase, but still are off center to the outside to achieve the larger bore. The 5-1, 5-2 and 5-3 used all the same pistons, sleeves and block castings. Each casting was machined different to meet its individual application. The 6 series had three different block castings but the other parts were the same in this way also. The two 7 series were both completely different from each other due to the length of the blocks being different. Allot of people didn't realize these blocks were sleeved as if they didn't study the back side of them they would not notice it. The dead give away was the outside diameter of the cylinders / sleeves were machined round. The sleeves also had a step on the outside diameter of them to set / catch the mounting edge face of the crankcase. This kept the sleeves from moving to the rear. This step was so close in between the sleeves where they met in the center that it was machined flat in that area to allow room so that the steps on each sleeve did not interfere with each other. I have also removed the sleeves from these blocks and used them for other blocks to repair them. Just a little more information. Dave W.

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G Taylor

10-29-2002 08:58:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to WTW, 10-29-2002 07:38:30  
It must be wet sleeved and I never looked for sleeves assuming it was one piece cast. The machine shop never mentioned we were sleeving a sleeve either. When boring they noted how soft the metal was. Paint and sheet metal is almost done. Maybe next summer ther will be a dyno at one of the shows. Even with the stock cam and heads we hope to get 40HP out of her. Did tsc ever sell replacement sleeves? Any concerns over coolant leakage?

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WTW

10-29-2002 12:05:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-29-2002 08:58:34  
I am pretty sure there was not ever any replacement sleeves ever available for the Power-blocks because they were not intended to ever be removed for service. There never was a factory replacement oversize piston either. The only thing you could get for them was stock size rings and that has been a long time ago since they have been available. I have seen custom sleeves made for them as well as oversize pistons. The cost of fooling with these Power-blocks are painful but they are unique one of a kind. Some bang for your buck but it take a few bucks. Dave W.

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G Taylor

10-30-2002 08:51:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to WTW, 10-29-2002 12:05:22  
We just looked through the ring cataloge till we found the size we needed. In order to get the 5-3 and powerblock cast into the top of the block tsc must have made their own blocks. Offset boring a Deere block and putting oversize wet sleeves in it would be a sizable task. Any coolant leakage problems with the 40 to 50 year old seals?



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WTW

10-30-2002 10:47:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-30-2002 08:51:32  
All the Power-blocks that I have been involved with I never used the stock piston back in them. I just matched the ring to the piston application I was using or like you picked them out of a ring catalogue by size. When I would have these blocks bored using the original factory installed sleeves I always gave strict instruction to the machine shop not to cook these block in a cleaning tank so risk in damaging the o-ring seals could be prevented. I do have them pressure checked. I have had a few blocks weep antifreeze in the oil. The last "B" I built for my son did and with nothing else to loose I put block sealer in it and it seem to stop it right up. I knew it was the back o-rings leaking as if it were the front, the antifreeze would be entering the combustion chamber and I can smell that a mile away. The ones that seem to leak the worse is the ones that have custom sleeves installed in them. To sleeve a stock block like a Power-block I don't think the quality will ever come close as there is not near enough material in the block to support the sleeve. A "G" Power-block will weigh about 25% more than the original stock block. There is defiantly more material in the Power-block. The Jerry blocks from Kansas are a custom made casting. The guy does some good work but won't come cheap.

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a puller

10-28-2002 18:36:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to G Taylor, 10-28-2002 18:33:37  
I know that the 6-2 JD A blocks are sleeved...that is the 2 that we have.



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A puller

10-28-2002 09:31:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: sleeves in reply to Better Study Your Lesson (WTW), 10-28-2002 08:40:19  
thanks alot a puller



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