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Div III engine rules question

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Jeff Oliver

11-16-2002 20:09:25




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First off I am not wanting to start a argument oe a flaming but am just honestly curious.

Although I am not a member of the NATPA I do pull some in the local ones around here. I have an Oliver 88 that is stock except for the straight pipe and pressed steel wheels. Since we all know that the rules for these pulls are more flexible than NATPA I kinda use their's as a guidleline. I have noticed that the JD's can use a powerblock which is understandable since it was an option from the dealer if I remember right. I don't understand why The IH's can use 350-450 blocks and stuff and the A-C WD,s and such can use a D-17 engine as they were not availabe when these tractors were built.

What I am curious about is that if these two can do tht how come there are the restriction on the Olivers about what blocks and heads they can use? Wouldn't changing this be doing the same thing as going to a newer block and motor like the IH and AC?

Like I said I don't pull NATPA so it doesn't really effect me but I am just curious.

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randy hall

11-17-2002 15:13:22




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 Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-16-2002 20:09:25  
tractor supply came out with the powerblock for john deere's in'57. they are not a john deere part.



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Brad--IN

11-16-2002 20:22:09




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 Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-16-2002 20:09:25  
I was on the NATPA tech committee for about 6 years. This is my understanding of the interpretation. If you went to an IH dealer and asked for a replacement block for your Farmall H, the parts man would provide you with a block that fit the 350 with a 350 block casting number. Same with Farmall M would be a 450 block. I understand Allis is the same way. If you went to a White dealer and asked for a replacement block for an 88, you would get an identical block to your 88 and not a 1650. Hope this helps.

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Jeff Oliver

11-16-2002 20:41:08




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 Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Brad--IN, 11-16-2002 20:22:09  
thanks for replying so fast. Like I said I was wondering about it and knew someone on here would know. I guess it would be more clear if it was written that the IH's and the AC's could use the "blocks" from those newer model tractors and not the entire engine.

Oh well it's all in fun anyway. Might take mine up to Murray on the friday night and see how it does in the lighter classes. I have been pulling in the 5500-6000 this year but tool the water out of my tires for winter and might try it in the 4500-5000 at least once. Hehe nothing to loose but money right?LOL!

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Brad--IN

11-17-2002 18:15:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-16-2002 20:41:08  
Did not mean to imply that you could not use entire engine. 350 heads, blocks and all internals are legal on H's. Likewise with 450 parts on M and D-17 parts on Allis. The only thing not legal on Oliver is to put 4 digit model blocks in 2 digit model tractors. Anything goes inside as long as appearance stays original. Sorry for the confusion.



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Puller

11-17-2002 19:15:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Brad--IN, 11-17-2002 18:15:41  
Does this mean that you can use a 99 oliver engine in an 88? It is 4 bolt main, it measures the exact same length, and it takes no modifying to put in the tractor. I understand that you cant use the heads, that is in the rules, I just want to know if you can use the blocks. Would be a lot easier to just bore the blocks out to 4-3/8 rather than sleeving the 88 block. There would be no other advantage except for this.

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Brad--IN

11-17-2002 20:01:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Puller, 11-17-2002 19:15:04  
Its questions like these that remind me why I decided to take a break from the tech committee. 99 blocks are not legal in 88's.



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A.P.

11-18-2002 02:18:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to Brad--IN, 11-17-2002 20:01:05  
I know, don't shoot the messenger. But IH never recommended the 350/450 LP heads as replacements for the distallate/gas heads on earlier tractors. JD sold their own correct replacement blocks and heads not M&W blocks. The list goes on. There should be no reason why in div. 3 and up tractors an Oliver can't use a four main block or any head thet was made for the four main block by the factory. Maybe not the Super 99/Waukesha195/Massey 110 head until you hit div. 4 but no reason not to allow 1600/1650/1655/2-70 gas heads.

My $.02,
A.P.

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Jeff Oliver

11-19-2002 14:32:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div III engine rules question in reply to A.P., 11-18-2002 02:18:47  
Thanks for all the replies. I can understand why someone would want to take a break from the tech dept.:) I am also glad to see this thread stayed to the subject and also didn't start any flaming. I good healthy discussion the way it should be.:)



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