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Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion.

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redhead

12-16-2002 17:00:53

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I've never experimented with a belly bracket. I've always had good luck without one. Most of the guys I pull with have one, and say they like it. Every year I say the same thing "maybe in the off season I'll fool with one and see if it pulls better". But, I never do, and I sometimes wonder if I'm missing some better hooks. What's everyones opinion/theory? Maybe I'll rig one up for spring.

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redhead - finally convinced

12-18-2002 05:35:16

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

Thanks for all the great posts, they have convinced me that a belly bracket should be given a try. I'll post again later in the 03 season and let you all know how well it has worked. Good Luck.

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Ohio M Puller

12-18-2002 06:58:13

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Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead - finally convinced, 12-18-2002 05:35:16

What kind of Tractor do you pull? If you have an M I have an extra weight bracket.

Ohio M Puller
Deal With It Pulling

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redhead

12-18-2002 19:09:27

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Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Ohio M Puller, 12-18-2002 06:58:13

Yes, it's a M. Where on the chassis does your bracket mount?

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Ohio M Puller

12-19-2002 04:10:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-18-2002 19:09:27

You must have removed your belly pump for the one to mount on. I use the two bottom bolts in the open cubby hole that is left. If you didn't remove the pump I also have one that bolts into the pre-tapped hole just infront of the brake covers. If you are interested call me I will get rid of them for $40 dollars each (cheaper than you can buy steal plus they are already drilled and sized). If it interests you I also have a nose bracket.

Ohio M Puller
Deal With It Pulling
Call Me 419 295 4592

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Flyin Farmall

12-19-2002 18:29:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Ohio M Puller, 12-19-2002 04:10:17

E-mail me with a price on the front bracket,I may be interested.Thanx

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redhead

12-19-2002 07:48:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Ohio M Puller, 12-19-2002 04:10:17

Thanks for the offer. I've already got a set cut out and ready to weld.

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wendel

12-18-2002 03:52:26

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

I started with a belly bracket.Now hang weights as far back and forward that the rules allow.Works better for me.

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joecool

12-17-2002 19:21:04

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

We were at a pull this past year and noticed the winners all had "belly" weight brackets. We talked about it and have intalled on all our tractors. It has certainly helped with the balance on my Case DC, seems to help plant tires without wanting to bring up front end. Our friend has adapted them on his tractors also. Like my dad says, look at what the winners are doing and try it.

www.southernanitqueiron.com

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Ken

12-17-2002 18:55:07

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

When I started pulling I put A belly bracket on my H that Is the best place to hank weights then I moved from there. Ken

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Ohio M Puller

12-17-2002 09:04:05

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

We run belly brackets as well on our M & H, that are 1/2" aluminum plate so that we can hang the weight either pointing forward or backwards. This assists in balance as well as if you need more weight towards the nose you aim the weight towards the nose and vise versa. Take it for what it is worth, just my two cents. Also don't ever let anyone tell you that one weight bracket system is the BEST cause all will work as long as YOU know how to utilize them.

Ohio M Puller
Deal With It Pulling

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KEN C.

12-16-2002 19:57:22

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

I have a middle bracket and only use it in the heavier classes simple because there is no more room on front or rear. In lighter classes i hang them on back as much as i can and the rest on front. ken.

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PDA

12-16-2002 19:18:41

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

Every tractor should have one. It seems to be alot easier to balance 3500 to 5500 lb tractors. One weight to many on front or rear has a big effect on small tractors.

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SteveV

12-16-2002 18:15:50

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

When I first started pullin' I was a big fan of putting the weights as far on each end of the tractor as possible. This past year I put 2 belly bars on the tractor and never put more than 80 lbs. on the weight bar out front. I don't know if it pulled more effectively...I think it did...but I do know it was easier to balance with the front wheels barely touching the ground at the end...or sometimes off the ground for the last 10-15 feet. And I also know that it was whole lot easier to steer...I don't have power steering. In my heaviest weight class I put 1,300 lbs on the tractor. Hope that helps.

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redhead

12-16-2002 18:24:23

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Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to SteveV, 12-16-2002 18:15:50

Sounds like GOOD balance. What brand/model are you pulling?

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SteveV

12-16-2002 19:24:32

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Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 18:24:23

I pull a 1951 John Deere 'A' in division II or stock..out of field ..etc.

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Slo

12-16-2002 17:53:08

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

I have one on a MM U and one on a MH 44. Different designs, but I use both, especially in the heavier classes each tractor pulls in. I don't use the one of the 44 as much, since the tractor is easier to balance than the U, and I don't add as much weight to the tractor.

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redhead

12-16-2002 18:21:28

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Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Slo, 12-16-2002 17:53:08

On your MH44, do you place weight on the belly bracket as part of the balance process? My M balances easily also. Some of the other M pullers say that belly weight makes them hook-up better, but I've never been convinced enough to try it. The belly bracket always seemed like a logical place to put NEUTRAL weight for the heavier classes.

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Slo

12-17-2002 03:08:47

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Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 18:21:28

Yes, I use it as part of the balance process. At least, I like to think I do... :-)

Friend of mine pulls an M from 5500 to 7500. He used to use his belly bar just to hold weight, but now uses it as part of the balance.

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Flyin Farmall

12-16-2002 19:07:38

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Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 18:21:28

I've always ran most of my weight on the 44 that I pull in the middle,this year with a new hitch I was able to put more weight on the back,and it made a BIG difference!On my M,I can balance it out better with using the belly brackets more than with the front,but it is front heavy too.

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redhead

12-16-2002 19:21:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Flyin Farmall, 12-16-2002 19:07:38

I think the hitch makes a big difference. Mine seems to pick up the front easily. This is one of the big reasons I've always been reluctant about the belly bracket.

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306m-puller

12-16-2002 17:47:55

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Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-16-2002 17:00:53

this past year was my first year pulling my M and all i had was a belly rack and i pulled div I & II. i had pretty good luck with it. 1st 6500 div I, 2nd 5500 div I, 6th & 10th 5500 div II, and 16th & 23rd 6500 div II.

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Dave

12-16-2002 20:33:35

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Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to 306m-puller, 12-16-2002 17:47:55

We pull a IH 400 and have been down the track a time or two in the past 6 years. A older puller with much more experience than me explaned it to me this way: using a physics theory that for every 1 foot away from the pivot point (the rear axel in this case) the weight will multiply 1 time. (example: 100 lbs. 8 feet ahead of the rear axle will be the same weight as 800lbs on the rear axle) Of course, if 300# will keep the front end down, putting 500# on the front end will waste 200#. Putting the weight directly on the rear axle will result in no weight multiplying --100# will only be 100#---1 foot back would be an effective weight of 200# (100# plus the multiplyer of 1x100#).

Each type of track, condition of track, weather, condition of tires, #'s of air in tires, length and height of hitch, length of hitch chain and many other elements are what make antique tractor pulling so much fun. It also leads to alot of second guessing yourself and your friends on the way back home. Now, IF only I had put another 100lbs on the front end..... ...

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redhead

12-17-2002 05:59:01

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Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Dave, 12-16-2002 20:33:35

AMEN to the second guess! Two times last summer, a poor second guess got me a dead last finish. LOL. I like the physics example you used.

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SteveV

12-17-2002 19:29:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-17-2002 05:59:01

So here's the question, do I put a 100lb weight 10 ft from the axle or do I use a belly bar and put 200lbs. 5ft from the axle. The net effect is the same....1,000 lbs on the rear axle to counter balance the weights. So which method is more forgiving if I've not read the track correctly and I misread the sled? I like that 5 ft multipler myself. Just my 2 cents.

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redhead

12-17-2002 20:17:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to SteveV, 12-17-2002 19:29:02

Here's a question for your question. This physics principle will only work if the front wheels are light or off the ground (even if only by 1/4 inch). If the front wheels stay well planted, then they act as a fulcrum causing the weight in front of the front tires to pick up on the rear tires. Also, the weight on a belly bracket is distributed between the front and rear tires (percentage depends on where the bracket is located) until the front tires are light or off the ground. Does this muddy the water? Seems like a lot of guess work to me. A good pull has enough guess work in it as it is!

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SteveV

12-18-2002 15:34:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-17-2002 20:17:17

You're correct in your analysis of the front wheels needing to be "light" for the princple to be effective. My point was this...if I make a 50 lb mistake in weight placement forward of the axle which method will exaggerate my mistake? The front weight bracket will because it has the greater multipler (number of feet x lbs.). Drop me an e-mail if you want to go one on one. It's refreshing to hear a discussion about pulling that doesn't involve horsepower or cheating eh?

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redhead

12-17-2002 20:28:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-17-2002 20:17:17

P.S. this is very thought provoking, and I'm enjoying it. The bottom line is ALWAYS what works best for you!

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Dave

12-18-2002 19:20:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to redhead, 12-17-2002 20:28:12

The only way to know if your tractor is weighted right is if your front end is just dancing on the track just before you get stopped or you win and both cases are tooooo late to do anyting about it!! And the next track will be different too!!

One guy mentioned that he could turn his weights forward or to the back using the belly mount that he made. I was just thinking about this, as long as the bracket remains fastened to the same place on the tractor, does it matter which way they are pointed? Won't the weight still be hanging from the same place???

Just my 1 and 78/79th cents worth.

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Puller504

12-27-2002 05:35:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Dave, 12-18-2002 19:20:10

Yes Dave, the weights are ATTACHED at the same point on the bracket, but the LOCATION of the pounds of the weight will be either closer to the front of the tractor or to the rear. This alone may keep the front end down longer in a pull, especially in a lighter class with few weights on the tractor. I ran 2 bars bolted onto the bosses where the rear of the loader frame attaches to my IH504. Pull the tractor in stock classes from #4500 to #7500. #800 on the nose and #400 on each side and the rest on the back in the #7500 class. Now have side brackets on the Oliver, too. It pulls stock classes from #6500 to #9000.

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redhead

12-19-2002 07:45:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mid-mount (belly) weight brackets, lets have a discussion. in reply to Dave, 12-18-2002 19:20:10

While reading your post today, I was also watching a squirrel trying to climb a dried sunflower plant to get to the seed head. The total weight of the dried plant was probably far less than the squirrels body weight. The higher he climbed the more the stem bent in the direction of his body weight. So, he moved to the other side and tried to climb higher. Again, the stem bent in the direction of his body weight even though his feet were the only point connecting him to the stem. The moral is, yes the direction a weight is turned does matter. As for the squirrel, I guess he got motion sick, because he gave up and went to the bird feeder. LOL and Seasons Greetings.

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