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Off subject F150 vs 2500

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Farmall Man

12-27-2002 15:40:41




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I have a question. I have a 77 f-150 4x4. It has a 351m that has a good cam and is bored .30 over with keith black pistons, and it has dual 2 1/2 flowmasters on it. With 31 10.50 trailbuster tires on it. My truck has a np205 transfer case and a np435 4 speed transmission. with either 3.73 or 4.10 rears.
My brother has a newer 2500 ram 4x4 with a cummins in it backed by a wimpy automatic. It is all stock except for it has straight pipes on it. It has a 4.10 locking differential. If we hooked them together who do you thnk will move who? Thanks for any input or comments. I feel if I weighted my truck up to the weight of his I would pull it backwards.

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Jack

12-29-2002 09:09:37




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
I am sure your truck is a good puller but where the diesel shines is on the road,thats where you can burn up a gasser trying to keep up.I attended a truck pull several years ago and there was two brothers pulling against each other.One had a brand new powerstroke(just came out with them)and the other had a 460 in his.The 460 pulled ok but on the far end he was not even spinning anymore but the power stroke with haze coming out,was spinning all four beating the other by 20 or so feet.I know of a healthy 1985 half ton Chevy short bed with a 350 4 speed that has taken one ton Fords,3/4 ton four wheel drive Fords and other Chevy's backwards quickly.Weight is a big factor and welded up front spider gears and Detriot locker rear differentials too.Have fun but them parts can be expensive.Later,Jack(TN).

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casey

12-28-2002 16:08:47




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
any true farm would have a ford because fords atleast made tractors. if chevy was so good they would have made farm equipment too. theres not even one good thing that chevy invented to make vehicles better for the farm, besides that new all wheel steer but that will NEVER last, due to ball joint replacements and alignments. FORD FORD FORD!



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G-MAN

12-28-2002 17:25:29




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 Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to casey, 12-28-2002 16:08:47  
Just a couple comments. Ford used to make tractors - they don't anymore. International Harvester made trucks and pickups, they don't anymore. See a pattern developing here? Ford produced tractors because old Henry had the things needed to rub the noses of the rest of the tractor manufacturers in the dirt by building and selling a decent tractor dirt cheap - which he did with the Fordson and later the "N" series. The two things he needed were money and inclination, and he had a bunch of both. He was even willing to lose money to sell tractors, which he probably did also. Due to his ready-made sales and service force (Ford auto dealerships), he was able to go big-time right away. At one point during WWII, he was doing his best to get the wartime production supervisors to put all the rest of the farm equipment manufacturers out of business and allow only the production of Ford tractors and equipment. Thank God he wasn't successful in doing that. The problem with Ford tractors was the continuous revamping of the same basic platform, while others were moving on to bigger and better things. I've worked on many Ford tractors while working at a New Holland dealership, and they aren't bad machines - they were just passed by, which is why they were eventually sold to New Holland. And, about the rear-wheel steering - I have studied that system, but don't most FRONT axle steering systems use ball joints and need occassional realignments? How often do you replace ball joints on the front of your Fords? Doesn't seem to me that the rear axle would be any different than the front.....

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Ethan Berry

12-30-2002 05:41:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to G-MAN, 12-28-2002 17:25:29  
Man, truck pulling wars is one way to start a heated discussion. My 390 Ford is great, gets good mileage, and has good low-end for a V-8. I think this is due to the bore to stroke ratio. The long stroke in the 390 makes up for the lack of low end common in V8 engines. A straight six will produce 30% more torque than a V8 of similar size and modifications. I think this is why a Cummins can run lower horsepower, but still out perform many large hp gas jobs when it gets down to moving a load. Just some educated guesses here. How bout a 455 Olds vs. 454 Chevy folks? Lots of good old machines from each company. We all got our favorites!!!

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Adam

12-28-2002 17:53:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to G-MAN, 12-28-2002 17:25:29  
GMAN I think that International still makes trucks? Dont they!!! I think you like the green pieces of crap



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G-MAN

12-29-2002 11:24:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Adam, 12-28-2002 17:53:07  
They are no longer International Harvester trucks. They are plain Internationals and are built by Navistar, which was a subsidiary of IH at one time. International Harvester was bought out by Case, and they have in turn been bought out/merged with by New Holland, so to say there are still International Harvester trucks is plain wrong. And yes, I do like the green pieces of crap - even after having grown up on red pieces of crap.

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DOGEMAN

12-29-2002 09:01:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Adam, 12-28-2002 17:53:07  
IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN YOU FORD OR IH BOYS, JOHN DEERE HAS KEPT THEIR ORIGINAL NAME, UNLIKE, FORD, WHICH IS NOW NEW HOLLAND AND INTERNATIONAL, WHICH IS NOW CASE IH, IT SEEMS THEY HAVE TO MERGE TOGEHTER TO KEEP WITH THE BIG DOG. JOHN DEERE IS THE GREATEST AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE GREATEST. ANYONE WHO SPENDS 12 HOURS A DAY ON A TRACTOR WILL PICK THE JD, THERE IS NO DOUBTIN MY MIND, ANYTHING FORD IS BAD, IF YOU AIN'T GOT A DODGE CUMMINS OR A CHEVY YOU AINT GOT NOTHIN.

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SR

12-29-2002 18:15:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to DOGEMAN, 12-29-2002 09:01:30  
Grow Up!!!



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Farmall Man

12-29-2002 18:21:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to SR, 12-29-2002 18:15:05  
Who are you telling to grow up. Im 16 and it is rivalry between me and my brother. I have nothing against different makes of trucks, but i can always say that can pull his truck backwards and he can't.



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SR

12-30-2002 07:52:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-29-2002 18:21:30  
I'm 17, and we don't care who can out pull what! I care about tractor pulling, and this is what this site is about!!!!! Not trucks!



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G-MAN

12-28-2002 15:44:16




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
You have some good parts in your truck, but I think you'll get drug around. Your NP205 doesn't have as low of a low-range as the NVG241 in his Dodge, his engine is built to produce maximum torque at around 1400 rpm and he's got 1000 lbs of weight sitting right over his front axle in that Cummins engine. You also need to factor in that the "wimpy automatic" has a torque converter in front of it that is going to multiply his torque a few times over in a near-stall condition. That "wimpy automatic" is also a pretty good transmission - unless you get it hot, which will destroy any automatic in no time. His automatic is basically a Chrysler 727 Torque-Flite with a heavy-duty overdrive bolted on the back. In case you're not familiar with Chrysler products, the Torque-Flite is one of the best automatics ever built. Also consider your half-ton axles and if they're going to stand up to the strain. I know his Dana 60 front and Dana 70 or 80 rear will. If you want to have a chance, hook to your bumper and let him hook around his rear axle, that way he can transfer some weight to your truck and you can hook better, lol. I'm kidding on that last part - if you do that, I guarantee he will drag you wherever he wants to take you. And if you decide to have the pull, do it on asphalt and make it interesting. We once hooked up to a '86 Chevy 1/2 ton with a 305, auto and 3.42 gears with our '76 Ford 3/4 ton with a 390, four-speed and 4.10s. We were probably weighing 6500 lbs to his 4500 and it was a slaughter. I'm not a Ford man, but even I knew he didn't have a chance. There was a lot of alchohol involved, and by the time the smoke cleared, my uncle had dragged him 2 city blocks and around a corner in the low side of 3rd gear, and the guy did a fine job of missing several parked cars and the bank, considering he was driving backward. As you might guess, the fight started shortly after the trucks stopped. And those four patches of rubber where he spun before my uncle let the clutch out were there in front of the Knights of Columbus hall for a few years.

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Seth-Ky

12-28-2002 08:44:27




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
A dodge truck has alot of torque, they run low rpm's, but that doesn't have anything to do with out pulling someone. The ford small block can have alot of horse power, but they do not have the torque of a diesel motor! If you really want to try to pull, go hook to a tree and have fun...
A chevy with a 454 would be a match for the dodge, in your case a chevy 350 bored .60 over, big cam, 3 inch exhast, flowmasters,Holley carb would be more of a match for you... Can't beat a Chevy!

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Jeff

12-28-2002 05:00:37




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
I have seen this done once although not with the Dodge but with the Ford. The Chevy had a 454 with 4 speed and the Ford had a Powerstroke and auto. As for Horsepower I would say you are probably ahead of him, touque I am not sure of butthe Dodge will get its max at a lower RPM tham you will I think. The main factor in the one I saw was the tranny. The guy with the 4 speed never got his clutch released and he got pulled backwards. All your buddy has to do is nail the throttle. Might not make a difference if ya'll hoook together but it sure did that time. Let us know how it comes out cause it sure sounds like there is a pull in the future!!!

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Darren

12-27-2002 22:40:02




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
I must say this would be an interesting trial. Sounds like me and my friends always wanting to hook things together! I'm no mechanic, but from what I understand, the way you have your engine built wouldn't the tourque curve be at a higher RPM, where the diesel would probably be around 1800 RPM or so? I know that depends greatly on your cam, but generally a gasser doesn't have the trouqe like a diesel. Just a thought...
Darren

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Ethan Berry

12-30-2002 05:44:11




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 Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Darren, 12-27-2002 22:40:02  
Darren? Is this the Darren I know with a nice white Cummins Dodge? I've seen and heard it in action. Nice sounding truck. Don't scratch that bed!



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Gr8Bald1

12-27-2002 22:34:54




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
When it comes to pulling, two factors come into play. One is torque, the other is final drive ratio. In my humble opinion, the Dodge has the advantage on both counts. I don't have the numbers handy but the Cummins is designed with stump-pulling torque. I read in 4 Wheeler magazine a few years ago that with a Banks Stinger kit, the Cummins is capable of roughly half the torque the average over-the-road semi. That's pretty crazy. Also, while those 31 inch tires probably look great on your truck and help improve ground clearance, they effectively reduce your final drive ratio. One example I'm familiar with is that if a guy goes from stock tires and say a 3.73 rear end to 35 inch Monster Mudders, the rear end gears would need to be swapped out in favor of 4.56 ring and pinions to return to the original final drive ratio. Although I'd like to witness the contest (I'm a sucker for noise and smoke), my opinion is that the Dodge would prevail.

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Ron

12-27-2002 20:56:19




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
Sorry, but you built to wrong engine.....

The 4 barrel 460 is the one to build...if you really want to go around whipping on diesels...!!!

Those diesels really do get the job done in the mountains....4 Horse trailers, and 70 MPH like they are on level ground..!!!



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farmall man

12-27-2002 21:02:24




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 Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Ron, 12-27-2002 20:56:19  
everyone is entitled to their own opinions but until youve been in my truck dont tell me i built the wrong the engine



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Mike

12-28-2002 15:47:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to farmall man, 12-27-2002 21:02:24  
I have a 1 ton Ford it came with a 351M did alot to it and helped it.Then I changed it out with a
460 useing the same truck ,trans,rear end and even the same holley carb.the 460 is far better and its stock,even picked up a few miles per gallon pulling the trailer. As per pulling a trailer I'd put my Dodge 360 gas
up to a Ford 351M anyday and beat it cause I have had them both. It's not bragging if you can do it !!!!

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Mr. J

12-27-2002 20:20:17




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
Well, In my opinion, the 3/4 ton dodge would pull your truck around. The automatic in those trucks are made next to bulletproof, and I think the one way that your truck would be hurting would be the lack of support for your axles. I think that your axles and tires would "wheel hop" very badly with the standard transmission and lack of stabilization. I agree that you have more horsepower, but I think that the new truck, with locking differentials and lower gears would have no trouble pulling the lighter F-150. His automatic would actually be an advantage because he could manage the wheel spin and get the most of his torque to the ground. Honestly, unless you had the trucks on pavement, they would both spin out, gravel wars very rarely have a winner.

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Brad Wies

12-27-2002 20:00:39




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
Farmall Man, I believe your truck would do it. He may have more torque, but the newer daimler made trucks (daimler is owned by mercedes) have weak auto's. The NP205 is a great transfer case. I believe even with him having more power, you would put yours to the ground better and would pull it around. Your Ford was built when TRUCKKS WERE TRUCKS! Not todays plastic crap. Any of the BIG THREE had decent old trucks, but yours is older. it was built better and could work harder! than todays trucks -Brad

No brand war here, I am just stating old trucks are far better than todays trucks and could be worked alot harder and will always last longer!

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LW

12-28-2002 07:18:33




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 Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Brad Wies, 12-27-2002 20:00:39  
I will agree old trucks were built well, but 25 years ago could you go buy a pickup that would pull 30,000 pounds plus the weight of the truck then go down the highway and get 20mpg weighing 8,200lbs, I know a single wheel 4X4 '77 Chevy 1 ton weighed about 5,800lbs new ford's and dodges have 2,000lbs on them right there that a lot more steel in the same size area plus seen any knew trucks with the frame broke at the rear axle or steering box.

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JB1

12-27-2002 19:30:22




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  

I think they will both sit there and spin. There is only one way to find out and I think you know what that is.



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WHAT THE #$%*IS THIS

12-27-2002 18:11:15




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 Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to Farmall Man, 12-27-2002 15:40:41  
WHY NOT POST THIS ON ONE OF THE TRUCK SITES THIS IS TRACTOR PULL SITE IM SHURE THAT THAY WILL GET A KICK OUT OF YOUR CHILDISH BANTER OR DID YOU NOT REALIZE THE SITE YOU WERE ON



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farmall man

12-27-2002 18:58:45




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 Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to WHAT THE #$%*IS THIS, 12-27-2002 18:11:15  
I guess you cant read because i wrote OFF-SUBJECT. You are the moron that has enough time to read it and post a follow-up on my little childish game. Why dont you quit being a jerk and grow up yourself.



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peter stiffy

12-27-2002 20:20:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to farmall man, 12-27-2002 18:58:45  
do u have any comments on the recent price hike on rhubarb?



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EB

12-30-2002 07:23:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to peter stiffy, 12-27-2002 20:20:13  
I would say this runs along the subject line of tractor pulling since these trucks are pulling tractors around. Hence the term "tractor pulling". Ha ha. Truck pulling is entertaining sometimes.



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Chevy rules

12-27-2002 22:07:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off subject F150 vs 2500 in reply to peter stiffy, 12-27-2002 20:20:13  
Fords, dodges and rhubarb all have the same effect on me, its called the sh&ts



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