TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Discussion Forum

Bears motor

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Must follow the

02-18-2003 09:53:37

Report to Moderator

Have been reading this morning and came to the conclusion that bears motor is illegal. The div. 5 rules state that these tractors must have the original crank case, he does not. Also heard he plained the ends of his 360 motor to be compliant with the same length as the original crank case rule. I feel if he has to cheat that much to win some of the times he needs to be kicked out of the NATPA and seek professional help! It is time the board members get some backbone and straigten this problem out!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

skippy

02-20-2003 12:01:04

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

Why cant I run a 88 motor in a 77 in 4000lb class?Sounds fair,Both motors were made by the same people.That would be fun.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

The one rule there should be!

02-19-2003 14:12:20

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

And thats no more mentioning of Bill Bears name on this board! I come on here for interesting questions and answers not to look at peoples bickering about an illegal tractor and people getting rude about every Americans god giving right to there opinion!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

puller an fan

02-19-2003 10:53:26

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

why dont all of you cry babies just shut up about BILL.I seen him at Murray and he was nice to everyone that he talked to.I belive all of you crybabies main problem's with BILL is that you cant ride around the country with your wife in a R.V. doing what you want.And the fact that he has the money to do it just kill's some of you.This is just my $.02 but you need to help our sport rather than hurt it. DESPERADO

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Tilley leave already

02-20-2003 19:51:24

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to puller an fan, 02-19-2003 10:53:26

I thought that we had finally got rid of you when you sold your 88 (which has done a great job of holding together by the way). Quit sucking up to Bear by telling us how great you think he is.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

PULLER OF ONE

02-19-2003 13:52:57

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to puller an fan, 02-19-2003 10:53:26

People like YOU are the reason why there is a problem in the first place!SO YOU think that its OK to cheat too! YOU are just another keyboard tractor puller,there the worst kind,thay don't know CRAP and can't pull anyway because thay don't know what end of the tractor is hooked to the sled,you a puller all you pull is Bull SH&T around in your drawers,O sorry your a legal CHEETER! I forgot.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Cry me the blues

02-20-2003 06:30:45

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to PULLER OF ONE, 02-19-2003 13:52:57

Hello, no name, whinning cry baby. Rules are given to intrepetation. By the rules he is legal.
Plain and simple. Next year several other IH tractors are going to be legal also.

If everything were cut and dry, right and wrong then we would all be Baptist or Methodist or which ever group was the strongest but not everyone see things the same way. The head is IH the block is IH and the correct length. Get your head out of the sand and get over it.

Tim Crutcher.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Who are you again?

02-20-2003 19:55:19

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Cry me the blues, 02-20-2003 06:30:45

I would like to know who you are to be giving us your opinion on rules interpretation. I've never seen your name in the results for having a winning tractor or for helping with one. He IS NOT LEGAL, get that through your head! In my opinion sticking the Squealer's head on the 460 is closer to being legal. Now if you have any actual experiences to base your opinion on (besides reading what's on here) I'd listen.

-NATPA Puller

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

TimC

02-21-2003 13:45:48

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Who are you again?, 02-20-2003 19:55:19

If you need qualifications then go to a pull and tell your winning but story to only the pullers who pull division 5 against Bill Bear(because they have built something that has competed in the division you are crying about) and see if they don't tell you to grow up. They obviously don't have a problem with rules intrepetition. Because they are either going to do the same thing or build something that will go to the next level. I know Jack B. is doing it. I was told that a Brooks was going to do the same thing. Its too late. Give it up. You are not going to be competitive without changing from year to year.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

timmy

02-24-2003 10:05:38

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to TimC, 02-21-2003 13:45:48

oooohhhhh, Jack B..scary! he is NOT impressed with Bear's 460, evidently YOU are! Are you his BIGGEST FAN? Build something, pull it, SHOW US, and QUIT TALKING about doing it!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Farmall Boy

02-19-2003 13:30:46

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to puller an fan, 02-19-2003 10:53:26

I am sori but who ever made this remark is VERY backwards. Helping the sport would be to follow the rules in the first place DUHHH. Essentially you are sayin cheaters are improving the sport right???That is totally wrong..i would be nice too if i could get away with cheating BUT even though with this added advantage his tractor was not very impressive to me but some one could copy this idea and accutally have a good tractor...WHAT do you think BILL would say then???

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

RASH

02-18-2003 21:18:52

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

YOU GUYS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS NOW? WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TRACTORS IN QUESTION? I KNOW OF 3 DIFFERENT TRACTORS THAT ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE, IT IS FUNNY TO WATCH THE CHEATERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T REALLY SHINE SO I DON'T COMPLAIN, IT IS FUNNY TO WATCH THEM AND SCRATCH THEIR HEADS AND WONDER WHY THEY DIDN'T WIN AND HAVE TO LOOK OVER THEIR SHOULDERS, THEY KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND SOME OF YOU NEED TO LOOK AT YOUR OWN TRACTOR.....RASH

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Must follow the Rules

02-18-2003 18:58:29

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

I suspect that I hit a sore note with a couple of people when I made that statement this morning. It doesnt make any difference if I pull in div. 1 or div.5, the rules were made to be followed not broken. This bear is the most obvious person. Why must anybody try to get around the rules, why dont they really try to follow the rules instead of bending them. If they are in doubt call the head of the tech crew and ask for their ruling. I just know that we are all good christian men and we run our households in that manner.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

We've been saying this since the beginning

02-18-2003 12:35:36

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

All of us that are informed people on the subject agree that the motor is not right, the only one's that will diagree with that are one's who are building that motor. It doesn't matter that his block might measure right because it'll be the only one in a million that would (they're 1/8 off)! Not only that but it has cobbled together heads that were never designed or intended to be put on that motor. Now they are talking about making him remove the cross-flow head and make a normal head out of cast-iron to fit it, what good does that do, you could make ports 4 in. in diameter. Yet, the funny thing out of this whole deal is how he's spent so much money, and caused so much trouble, but really doesn't have a dominant tractor (far from it actually!).

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Do you even pull in Div.5?

02-18-2003 11:52:44

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

Do you pull in this class or are you just stirring up something that is always a sore subject?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Keep Dreaming

02-18-2003 11:03:15

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

I'm sure if to call the NATPA officers and tell them of the small oversight, they will fix the problem immediately.

The NATPA is the most professional run tractor pulling origination there is.

The pulls are a class act that draws in thousands of spectators. The pullers themselves make the rules. This make allows all brands of tractor to compete on an even playing field. All tractors are inspected at all pulls and the rules are strictly enforced.

The different classes allow are pullers to have a class that best fits pulling desires. From the Division 1 stocker to the heart-stopping, earth-pounding Division 5 tractors, the action is nonstop.

The large payout insures the best pullers from across the country will be at all events.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

41Mpuller

02-18-2003 15:01:52

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Keep Dreaming, 02-18-2003 11:03:15

Keep dreaming What are you smoking? Where are all these thousands of people and thousands of dollars of pay out money. Are you sure your not thinking of the ATPA.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jeff

02-18-2003 14:14:35

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Keep Dreaming, 02-18-2003 11:03:15

All of the rules are strictly enforced?? Is that before or after a tractor is teched and ok'ed? Sorry but I have to say that I know of one tractor who they made him change his lug nuts from chrome to regular, Chrome acorn nuts for regular ones, steering wheel, and tach just to run in Div II. They told him that although the gas tank on the front isn't allowed he WOULD be allowed to pull in Div II. Now remember this is an NATPA official doing this ok? Seems after he pulled and NATPA got his money they disqualified him for guess what? The fuel tank! Well guys, YA"LL ok'ed it! If they are soo strict on the rules he would have never been in that Div. and basically lost his money. They put on a good pull and keep things pretty much fair but they fudge rules here and there as well.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Read the rules again....

02-18-2003 10:42:31

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

"Tractors must have stock frame, transmission, rear ends and axle housing. Front axles must be safe, sturdy and similar to stock with a stock wheel base. Crank cases must bolt to transmission in a stock appearing manner, be of the same manufacturer as the original crank case, must be the same length as the original crank case and be the same number of cylinders as the original make and model of the tractor. Heads, blocks (jugs), manifolds must be of the same manufacturer as the crank case or that of a recognized replacement manufacturer."

Last time I checked, "must be original crankcase" WAS NOT THE SAME AS "Crank cases must bolt to transmission in a stock appearing manner, be of the same manufacturer as the original crank case"

I do agree that if the block he is using is artifically the correct length that it is illegal, but any IH block that is the same length as the original, AS ORIGINALLY CAST would be legal the way I interpet the rules as written.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

JDGnut

02-18-2003 16:05:57

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Read the rules again...., 02-18-2003 10:42:31

"Same manufacturer as the original crank case" U said it the first time..

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Matter of interpretation

02-18-2003 11:39:21

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Read the rules again...., 02-18-2003 10:42:31

If you want to look at what the rules really say,nowhere does it say you can't machine the block to achieve the correct length. Maybe the people complaining should attend the meetings to try to correct these oversights. I'm not saying that the NATPA doesn't make mistakes,but the pullers need to help correct them.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

PULLER OF ONE

02-18-2003 14:13:10

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Matter of interpretation, 02-18-2003 11:39:21

Well first off if you can shave or change to fit the block into the tractor,THAN WHY CAN'T YOU USE THE 502 BLOCK IN THE CASE 900? your doing the same thing changing the block to fit! Why can Bear do it and NOBODY else can! AND AS FAR AS MAKING RULES! THE RULES CHANGE WAS DONE BY THE BOARD NOT THE PULLERS!
WHO THE H#ll are you to sit there a say that this is a great club,this board is the DEATH of NATPA

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Good Point!!

02-18-2003 11:47:29

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Matter of interpretation, 02-18-2003 11:39:21

I see your point. I guess it is just one of those implied things, that you can not alter the block to make it the same length. But that might be the loophole that could make the block "legal" I guess that falls under if the rules dont specifically outlaw something, than it is legal. Sometimes the spirit of the rules differ from what is in black and white.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bronson

02-18-2003 16:43:06

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Good Point!!, 02-18-2003 11:47:29

I have never seen this tractor or met the man but he seems to be big topic here. I dont know the details of this battle but theres got to be some way to get him. My big question is how does he get to run a "stock crank case" if it has to be cut down. That isnt stock. So if you know all this stuff about him running all these off the wall parts hes running why cant the officals take his entry fee let him pull then dq the dink and tell him to pull in the div he should. Just a thought. Happy Pulling

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

G-MAN

02-19-2003 10:55:19

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Bronson, 02-18-2003 16:43:06

The way I understand it is that the crankcase must be of the same manufacturer as the original and the same length as the original. It sounds like he took a later IH block and milled the ends down to the proper length. That's a big loophole in the rules, but it can't really be called cheating, even though in my opinion it would be. It just amazes me how much money guys will spend and how much b.s. they will endure for that precious $3 trophy. Seems like it would take all the fun out of it, and isn't that the point?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jeff

02-18-2003 19:24:25

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Bronson, 02-18-2003 16:43:06

That's where the problem seems to come in. See, from what I understand ber is the president of the NATPA. When they had a board meeting to determine if his tractor is leagal he was in the meeting himself. Looks like a conflict of interest to me but whatever. To his credit he is not just dominating the class or anything bu still if there are going to be rules and everyone is supposed to follow them then there should be no exceptions.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

02-19-2003 07:52:30

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Jeff, 02-18-2003 19:24:25

Please go the the NATPA website. Bill Bear is not the president and that will prove it when you look under the contacts. He is on the board. When people make assumptions like that, the hornets nest sure does get stirred up. Not saying that the ruling was right or wrong, but at the first pull of the year, a meeting was held on Friday night and the decision was made to let him pull. I do believe that the majority of the Div 5 pullers were in attendance and had the opportunity to voice their opinions. If they were not present and didn't have any input, it is not going to do any good whining about it now. All I can say, is if so many of us think that there are so many problems, maybe we should show up at the annual meeting in columbia to be there to vote on the rules. Rather than not show up and complain all next year.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

puller

02-19-2003 13:18:46

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to ag, 02-19-2003 07:52:30

The meeting that Bears tractors' legality was voted on was at a NATPA board meeting. There was no vote by other Div 5 pullers. At least now we all know how far we can bend the rules and get away with it.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

what is the 360?

02-18-2003 10:24:23

Report to Moderator

Re: Bears motor in reply to Must follow the rules, 02-18-2003 09:53:37

is it the diesel motor or something else?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Mr. Obvious

02-18-2003 17:26:19

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to what is the 360?, 02-18-2003 10:24:23

Sounds like to me Bill has something ya'll crybabies don't, an imagination and motivation! That is the whole key to this sport. Instead of typing about on the forum, git off of your lazy butts and think up and build something better. But if ya'll don't have that god givin gift then shut the he11 up and stay out of div. 5 If it isn't that good of a tractor then why are ya'll crying about it, shouldn't ya'll be whinning about the tractors that are beating him? I'm sure they are illegal too aren't they? Leave Bill alone and focus your time on something else like getting a life!!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

caseman

02-19-2003 13:23:06

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Mr. Obvious, 02-18-2003 17:26:19

what pi$$es me off is I cannot run a shorter 504 block in my case. But bear can run a machined down block that was made to be the same length.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

gone green

02-18-2003 22:09:19

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Mr. Obvious, 02-18-2003 17:26:19

Amen

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

BILLYBOB

02-19-2003 07:07:08

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to gone green, 02-18-2003 22:09:19

I hope bill cleans house, he gets no credit for advancing the sport. pore it on um bill.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Puller to Be

02-19-2003 15:42:48

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to BILLYBOB, 02-19-2003 07:07:08

Yeah Bill keep advancing the sport, maybe someday you will get a PAYBACK INSTEAD OF A PLAQUE.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

doublebarrelbadJDR

02-19-2003 22:08:05

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to Puller to Be, 02-19-2003 15:42:48

The reason why people are talking and wondering about this who arent in Div 5 is simple. It pisses people off that he can get by with it but they cant pass tech on small technacalities in their classes. Where does it stop and when is there going to be double standards. Pretty soon people will be trying to pull things like this in the lower classes when they find loopholes in the book. Like Caseman said, they dont let him run a shorter block but Bear can run his. If Caseman welds material on the ends of his block is he legal now? He should be if Bear is. Give it some thought

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

MIKE

02-20-2003 11:43:02

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bears motor in reply to doublebarrelbadJDR, 02-19-2003 22:08:05

DON'T BLAME THE PULLER FOR WHAT TECH MEN ARE DOING. IF HE WANTS TO WELD ON BLOCK THEN WELD IT WHO CARES, TURN'UM LOOSE AND SEE WHO'S GOT THE JACK.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy