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MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING

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FLATLANDER

05-01-2003 08:36:44

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I have a friend who has a M FARMHALL that is pushing 80 hp in division 2 and is very competitive. I have read that a MOLINE U would be a good candidate for pulling since the tractor can easily be modified and still maintain a stock appearance. Different heads,670 camshaft, g cranks and etc is the story that I am hearing. My question is 3 part. Exactly what parts would be needed to make the tractor competitive in division 2--any special block work needed such as boring or stroking. What weight would the tractor fall in when pulling? would this be a logical choice for such a division? Any and all responses would much be appreciated. thanks. FLATLANDER

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Stroker G

05-08-2003 08:22:40

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

This posting is for all the grown up boys with their nice toys cutting everyone down for having different types of options and tractors. If we all didn't have diiferent brands of tractors there really would not be any competition which is all fun. All you grown men know that any tractor can win on any given day. Yes it is nice to go and clean peoples clock week in and week out but, that my friend gets old fast. All the talk about speed limits. As we all know, these tractors were not built to turn tire on some dirt pulling weight in a 250 ft line in high gear. an easy solution is put them all in fist gear and let's go pulling boys!!

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dave

05-05-2003 16:39:49

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

hey flatlander everyone got off subject. the g crank and m5 blocks are good combo and some moline dealers put the m5 block on to u and ub as sort of a power block. according how much stroke and bore you put in but you could look at div 3 and the extra .5 mph and cut tires would help. a molines governor kicks in hard and you need good tires to hold.were building one similiar but div3 or 4 with more hp. call motec he has helped us. we probly won't pull natpa but might usap and alot of fun brush pulls. oh yea bring on them 4010s

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Family Tradition

05-04-2003 06:17:35

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

if you run taller jugs than a stock U in NATPA you sre forced to run div.5! I have a G crank and jugs and i am told div.5, so I just stay away from NATPA

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FLATLANDER

05-04-2003 17:12:01

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Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Family Tradition, 05-04-2003 06:17:35

FAMILY TRADITION, That sounds like very good advice!! As a non puller interested in getting in the sport, I have yet to find anyone who has anything positive to say about NATPA. No NATPA official has dared to come on board and make clarification of the rules. I am not blasting the JD pullers, but I wonder why some brands of tractors get certain "perks or benefits" while others do not. I personally know of one puller who had an unpleasant experience with NATPA. His tractor passed NATPA tech inspection and he pulled in division two. The pull was over, the tractor loaded, trophies awarded and he was fixing to go home when NATPA OFFICIALS cited a disrepancy on his tractor and thus disqualified him. Why did they not point this minor discrepany to the puller before the pull started?? Family Tradition, I must agree and I will certainly stay away from such an organization. thanks again.For anyone interested, this happened at Murray,Ky.
FLATLANDER

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FLATLANDER

05-03-2003 10:40:41

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

G-man, you are right about the JD's doing well. The last tractor pull I went to the track was soft and spongy and nearly everyone spun out except for the JD tractors. They walked over the competition because in my opinion the track played to their advantage. I did not miss the point, I am a seeker of valid and precise information. The question is simple, are g cranks and m5 blocks legal in division 2 on a moline u in
NATPA. Ambiguous interpretations of rules are the source of controversy. G-man, I would indeed have a clear conscience if these parts are considered legal according to NATPA. Any officals or rules committee members willing to speak on this?--or wait till I spend a lot of money and then tell me my tractor is illegal in this division. Keep the lines coming. thanks G man and all who responded. FLATLANDER

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G-MAN

05-02-2003 13:35:23

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

Do you think you'll be able to bet by with running those non-stock parts on your tractor? I guess it will depend on how lenient the officials are. Excerpt from Div. II rules:

7. ENGINE - Stock block, naturally aspirated. Exceptions: Oliver 99 GM, etc. Stock head, manifold, and carburetor (by part number). If an external part is not in the parts book or replacement parts book for that specific tractor it cannot be used.

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FlATLANDER

05-02-2003 22:21:50

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Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 13:35:23

Any comments from natpa officials or natpa pullers on this particular subject of legality. I would really like to know if m5 blocks ,g cranks ,etc are legal in division 2. I respect g man on his opinion, especially if he indeed pulls in division 2 and if indeed his tractor block, manifold, carb, and heads are exactly like they were when the tractor left the factory --STOCK!! I would rather find out now than have g man imply that i was cheating at some pull after investing in building a tractor. Step up to the plate natpa officials and rules commitee. Is m5 blocks, g cranks legal in division 2. thanks FLATLANDER

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G-MAN

05-03-2003 08:00:03

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Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FlATLANDER, 05-02-2003 22:21:50

Apparently you missed my point. I wasn't implying that you'd be a cheater at all. All I did was post the rule and my opinion of it. There is no such thing as a perfectly stock tractor. Even a JD with a plain old .045" overbore, which was the first overbore size gone to during an overhaul would not be "stock" according to your definition of the parts being just as they were when they left the factory, no would it? I also wouldn't accuse anyone of cheating at a pull. I do it for fun, and cheating accusations take the fun out of it for all involved. I also don't have MM parts book, and wouldn't know one head from another, so you'd be perfectly safe with me. However, if you think you might be accused of cheating, it would seem that you might have a guilty conscience about the whole deal before you even start. To each their own. I still contend that if you need 80-100 horsepower to win in a 3 mph class, you're doing something wrong. Like I said, there's a lot of JDs doing well in Div II that don't have anywhere near 80 horsepower.

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Slo

05-02-2003 16:12:55

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Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 13:35:23

So in that case, he bores out U jugs. Then all of the "external" parts are still factory.

IF I understand this correctly, Deere's are not allowed power blocks or Heisler heads in div 2?

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G-MAN

05-02-2003 17:54:17

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Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Slo, 05-02-2003 16:12:55

I believe he mentions using different heads, and the rule says stock head by part number. I don't see much way to get around the part number issue, other than outright cheating. I wasn't aware that winning in Div II required 80-100 hp, and was under the impression that modifications like that were more in line with Div IV. If he needs that much performance to beat relatively stock tractors, more power to him. Just another reason why people get p.o.ed and quit pulling. The general consensus seems to be that it's only cheating if you get caught.

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David

05-02-2003 18:17:11

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Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 17:54:17

Boy, you must not know much about Div. 4. The combination they are talking about wouldn't even come close to being competitive in Div. 4. As to 80 to 100 hp in Div. 2, I know of several Farmall M's here in Ohio that are turning that and you need it. As to heads, Moline put more than one type of head on their tractors depending on fuel and altitude. Tractors sent closer to sea level had lower compression heads than those from around the high plains, but they are in the part books for all Moline's of that model.

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G-MAN

05-02-2003 18:30:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to David, 05-02-2003 18:17:11

It takes 100 hp to go 3 mph and win in Div II? Does that mean it takes 400 hp to go however fast in Div IV and 500+ in Div V? Horsepower obviously rules the roost in Div IV and V, but it seems to me that it's usually the best-balanced and best-driven tractor that wins in the speed-regulated lower divisions. I've seen a lot of big-hp tractors spin-out and get passed by near-stockers, and I've seen a lot of JDs that were making nowhere near 80 horsepower do just fine in Div II. I guess that's what low-end torque and creeper gears do for you. It doesn't matter how much power you put to the tires, if you can't drive and weight your tractor properly, you're still not going to win - especially when you can't go over 3 mph.

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joe

05-02-2003 21:23:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 18:30:02

You never answered the question. ARE Heisler heads and power blocks legal on JD's in Div II?

Why are the John Deere guys so quick to change the subject when that question is asked?

Inquiring minds want to know

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G-MAN

05-03-2003 07:51:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to joe, 05-02-2003 21:23:55

My opinion means little as I'm not an official, but my opinion is that Heisler heads and powerblocks should NOT be legal in Div II. That probably shocks you since I'm an evil Deere fan, huh? The rules are pretty clear that those parts must be stock by part number, and those parts do not carry a JD part number, do they? Seems pretty cut and dried to me. A lot of guys probably believe they should be legal since they were common modifications to WORKING tractors back in the day, just like the M&W kits and high-altitude/LP pistons and heads were to other tractors, and that point probably has merit as well. Some tractors have the advantage of having aftermarket high-performance parts that are completely concealed inside the factory block. Wouldn't you agree that since that is the case, that the non-JD pullers have an advantage in that category? Obviously the Deeres can be bored and stroked, but they're still RPM-limited and harder and more expensive to build than other tractors. That doesn't seem to be much of an issue for most Deere pullers, though, as a quick check of NATPA points shows a slew of Deeres. Like I said, in a 3 mph class, maximum horsepower isn't always going to win. In my opinion, If you're going to mandate stock external parts, you may as well mandate stock internal parts as well. As most drag-racing and stock-car racing enthusiasts are well aware, there are ways to determine displacement without disassembling the engine. My intention wasn't to dodge the question in the first place since you're so concerned about it.

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Ha ha

05-02-2003 15:33:18

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Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 13:35:23

G-man, Go back to putt putt land. We want to actually talk about a tractor here. You been on two cylinders too long. Get into the 1930's.

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G-MAN

05-02-2003 17:50:28

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Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Ha ha, 05-02-2003 15:33:18

It doesn't have anything to do with the make or model of the tractor, and I couldn't care less what he pulls. Whether it's legal or not will come down to the opinion of the officials, and that's what I posted.

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Phil Munson

05-08-2003 10:22:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 17:50:28

Sorry about all the whiners being upset G man. Go a little easy on them so that we so not have to indulge a lot of this nonsense.

I have tractor pulled for over thirty years; but never enough. Tractor pulls are cheating contests, with rules, and have nothing to do with what goes on in the south forty. It is too bad that the whiners have not figured that out. It can ruin a good barbeque and afternoon at the track with neighbors and friends.

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G-MAN

05-08-2003 16:32:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Phil Munson, 05-08-2003 10:22:10

I agree, Phil. Back when I was completely ignorant of pulling (other than pulling at good old boy pulls), I figured that joining the NATPA would be the thing to do. From what I've read on here, it's the last thing I'd do. Regardless of what happens, somebody will be whining or p.o.ed at the end of the day. All of my pulling experience has been at county-fair type pulls where you run what you brung and hope you brung enough, and have a cold one with your fellow competitors when it's all over with. Far more fun than spending the entire time wondering what someone else has up his sleeve to beat you with.

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For G-Man

05-03-2003 19:14:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-02-2003 17:50:28

NATPA is for the JD puller, their rules are set up to make them a winner. Look at all the rules on Olivers, this was done so you little guys with putt putts could actually win. All of these parts were factory Oliver parts not aftermarket. Now they have been banned. NATPA is a real joke when it comes to playing fair. Who really cares if this Moline uses other parts inside, will you have to pull against it? This is a very mild combination, compared to what is running now in Div 2 and 3. I agree it takes a driver and the right combo to win. But you are comparing apples and oranges. NATPA has restricted other makes, (especially Oliver) for being ahead of their time and making FACTORY parts that would interchange for years and years. Why can you run a heisler head and I cant run a factory 99 head. This is why you see a slew of JD winning. But if they are Sooooo great why have they yet to win a Div 5 class? Just waiting to here your excuses.

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G-MAN

05-05-2003 07:42:34

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to For G-Man, 05-03-2003 19:14:40

Maybe you can answer the question of why NATPA refuses to move the age break up so that 10-series Deeres can pull? You complain about the outdated two-cylinders, but I would bet that you'd really holler if you had to pull against a lightened-up and thoroughly hot-rodded 4010, now wouldn't you? You can't have it both ways. Like I said in the above post, I personally don't think that the Heisler heads and power-blocks should be legal, EVEN THOUGH they were commonly installed on WORKING two-cylinders since way back when. Somehow I doubt that many Moline farmers were boring and stroking, swapping cranks and what-not in their field tractors back in the '50s. Those are modifications that were brought about SPECIFICALLY for pulling, not modifications that were done to improve in-field performance. And if your Olivers are so advanced, why do you need those modifications to be competitive, especially against an obsolete old two-cylinder? I'm interested in hearing your excuses about why you need to run a 99 head. Also, if you knew anything about Deeres, you'd know that a STOCK head can be modified to perform as well as a Heisler, and would still be legal, just as a stroked crank can be tucked into the factory main case. You're complaining because you want to bolt on performance, rather than using some ingenuity and thought to build it in and hide it. Like I said, it's the whiners such as yourself that take all the fun out of pulling. You'd rather complain about someone else can do than work on what you can do.

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Slo - HEY G-MAN

05-06-2003 17:50:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 07:42:34

I would think twice about the Moline comment if I were you. There were a whole lot of U's running G engines in them in the field years and years ago. More power in a row crop tractor. Very common dealer work. Run all day long in the field. Also, a M5 jug was a common replacement on U's if the U jugs went bad. And these parts are interchangable, from the factory.

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G-MAN

05-07-2003 10:57:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Slo - HEY G-MAN, 05-06-2003 17:50:40

Thanks for the info, and I wasn't aware of that. My original intent wasn't to start some big battle, just to inform the original poster than some might take offense to what he's proposing, based on the rule, which is why I posted the rule to begin with. Like I said, until the decided to check displacement, it's all a moot point anyway, because someone will always find a way to gain an edge, regardless of what "stock" parts are used. We used to pull 4x4 pickups against a good friend of mine. He had a very good running pickup and would frequently win, but always maintained that his engine was "stock". I'd give him guff about it, and his comment was "maybe I get my stock parts from a different place than you guys do", lol. Probably holds true here as well. It's been my experience that any time you make rules, somebody will always be unhappy, but if there are no rules, everybody will be unhappy.

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J-Man

05-08-2003 16:03:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-07-2003 10:57:49

Just wondering how an 88 Oliver with say 440 c,i.would do compared to a G with app. same c.i.

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G-MAN

05-08-2003 16:28:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to J-Man, 05-08-2003 16:03:27

In terms of top-end horsepower, I would bet that the Oliver would stomp all over the Deere, but horsepower doesn't win every pull, either. A factory "G" is already 412.5 ci, but the compression ratio is around 4.2:1 and the rated speed is 975 RPM. Deere used a long stroke and a huge bore to make power out of two-cylinders, not four- or six-cylinders running twice or three times as fast with a much shorter stroke and smaller bore. The very things that make Deeres so reliable and give them their excellent lugging ability are the same things that make them so hard to modify. You can't go super-high on the compression ratio because even with high-octane fuels, you still have to take the flame front across a huge bore without detonation. That's hard to do. So, if you're into Deeres, you build a tractor that has good low-end and balance it well, and you'll do fine. If you have a late "A" or "B" on up through the last number series, you might have the benefit of a "creeper" first gear, depending on the tractor model. The creeper gears allow even a bone-stock engine to spin the tires pretty easily, so you don't need gobs of horsepower to go as far as the others do. You're not going to enter any 12 mph classes, but very few people pull in those anyway. The vast majority of pulling still takes place in the lower divisions, and pretty much anyone is aware that it's harder to win in a class with twenty tractors than five.

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For G-boy

05-05-2003 18:54:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 07:42:34

YOU and I repeat YOU dont want to open it up to 1960. A 1900 Oliver would rain ALL over your joke of a 4010. You cant out pull a 99 Oliver with those junkers. As for no Molines being hopped up in the field, it is because they did not need it. Only those weak, joke of a tractor JDs need that. I can build a Div 4 Oliver 88 with stock block and stock head,(Sorry NATPA rules) can your JDs do this. Oh I forgot they cant compete above Div 2. Again where is all of your Div 5 2 cylinders? More excuses from someone who only starts an argument with someone trying to get info on this board. We are all sick of your mouth so please go hide in a hole some where and dream about those junkers. Since you have never been to a pull or even own a tractor that could compete, leave the rest of us alone.

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G-MAN

05-07-2003 10:53:16

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to For G-boy, 05-05-2003 18:54:26

Interesting. Especially coming from someone that lacks the guts to post a name or email address. Kind of shows how willing you are to back up YOUR mouth, doesn't it? All of these other guys are telling me that the Minnie modifications WERE common back in the day, but yet you're saying they WEREN'T because they weren't needed. Seems like you would be just as wrong as me then, right? Or maybe more so, considering how you're an expert tractor-builder and puller, and I've never even been to a pull. What an idiot. And no, I can't build a Div 4 JD using a stock Oliver block and heads. No matter what I try, I just can't get the holes to line up right. Thanks for your input, and have a nice day.

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For G boy

05-07-2003 20:10:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-07-2003 10:53:16

Some people did not need the extra power from Molines just depends where you are. And no I will NEVER be a jerk like you. Why would I want to leave my address so you can email me a virus. Last time I discussed something on here with you I recieved a virus! NO THANKS You would be helping your deere to bolt a real engine up to it. But then again that would take a real mechanic, not you! Just keep running your mouth thats what you do best. I am still wondering, you know the answer to every other question, where are all those div 5 deeres? If you were only as smart as you think you are!!!

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G Taylor

05-08-2003 08:51:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to For G boy, 05-07-2003 20:10:19

So you can't afford anti virus software? And you can dish it out but can't take it. Deere making division 5 is like trying build a drag racer out of a diesel pickup vs a mid sized gas car. The two cylinder was a specialized design to efficiently burn distilate fuels. Yet it still had fuel effiency levels either not broken or rarely achieved still to this day. And yet the two cylinder still racks up the points and takes home trophies often enough other brand owners sometimes feel threatened enough to complain.

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G Taylor we could care less about your stupid fuel efficency

05-08-2003 13:47:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G Taylor, 05-08-2003 08:51:12

We all know how fuel efficent those two cylinders really are, anyone who ever had one. They are not that good when you put it in the field and work it. Your results are in a lab not in the field. If they are so good then why are they not still building them? You must be G boys dad, everytime he gets in over his head here comes daddy to bail him out. Wa-Wa, G boy cry for daddy!!!!

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G-MAN

05-08-2003 15:44:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G Taylor we could care less about your stupid fuel efficency, 05-08-2003 13:47:46

And you say you're not a jerk... More than likely you're just upset that nobody is coming to defend you. Anyone that has read many of G. Taylor's posts is aware that he actually does have some knowledge to back up his opinions. I've yet to see you post anything to the effect. I also get the feeling that you've never posted an email address, and probably never received a virus. If you did, it certainly wasn't from me. I have better things to do with my time than play little kids' games such as those.

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G Taylor

05-09-2003 08:27:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-08-2003 15:44:24

Kind of tells us about the " don't care about efficiency" 's mental capacity. The poster is too scared to use his address. And he claims his ancestors without a controlled lab environment, calibrated instruments and educated techs. Have a more accurate method of measuring fuel efficiency??? Type of person who likely believes the big oil companies bought the 100mph carburetor. He may even have one of those "snake oil" ion,magnetic atomizers clamped to a fuel line too. Or too young to own any equipment/vehicles yet.

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supermpuller4

05-05-2003 13:19:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 07:42:34

The poor 4010 still could't beat a IH 460,then what are you going to do. Ijust love it when JD. guys cry about the year NATPA picked the age break.

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G-MAN

05-05-2003 15:55:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to supermpuller4, 05-05-2003 13:19:19

I guess we won't know until they change the age break, will we? Does it make any sense that year after year those tractors get a year older, and yet they're still not considered antique? Just how long has the age break been at 1959 anyway? A 460 is going to beat a 4010? Maybe if the 4010 is bone stock and someone dumps $20,000 in the 460...

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CASEPOWER

05-05-2003 19:26:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 15:55:43

Come on now G-man. You know what they say. "There is no replacement for displacement" Your 2 cylinders are running nearly twice the cubes stock. I pull super and choose to run a 1936 model tractor and I know many that are winning with tractors 20 years older then your new gen deeres. So what difference is that one year going to make?? If no one else is running newer then that why should you deere folks. Is it our fault that deere was one of the last to come out with there new gen of tractors. I pull against D series Allis and 460/560 farmalls. I have always told you that deere was outdated by 1929 and you have proven my point,By crying and whineing about the 2 cyl. tractors not having the nards to run with any other brand. Don't blame the tractor pull clubs. Blame deere for being so far behind the competition. I myself would love to see the year changed. I love to see 30xx and 40xx series deeres break cranks and spindles.

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G-MAN

05-06-2003 07:37:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to CASEPOWER, 05-05-2003 19:26:27

Like I said, I can't figure out why so many people complain about those obsolete old two-cylinders, but still have to build hot tractors to beat them, and complain when the rules don't let them do anything they want to do it. Next you'll be telling me that your CC will outpull a 4620 because Case had a four-cylinder before Deere. And I still can't figure out how Deere sold so many more of those obsolete tractors than Case did of their "modern" ones....

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CASEPOWER

05-06-2003 08:08:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-06-2003 07:37:46

Were do you get that folks build high dollar tractors to beat deeres. In the upper classes like super and div 5 there are no deeres. Folks are spending the $$ to beat other 4 cyl. tractors. My competition is Allis, farmall, and oliver. I don't remember a deere being in my class except one time and I believe the sled pulled the tractor backwards and the puller ended up with like -30 feet. I think I will go to the results and see how many deeres are winning or even pulling in div. 5. When you build a tractor better it cost more to build just like MM and Case did for all them years. Eventually the cheap through away junk is going to stay in buisness and the quality in products are lost. Deere has been doing it for years. Why don't you quit compaining about the 2 cylinder deeres not being able to compete and buy you a real tractor.

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G-MAN

05-06-2003 10:46:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to CASEPOWER, 05-06-2003 08:08:01

You're the one crying, not me. I have Deeres because I like Deeres. I'm not the one that couldn't make an "R" run well enough to win, then decided to build a Case.

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CASEPOWER

05-06-2003 11:15:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-06-2003 10:46:47

I had my case long before the R. The R won a trophy in all but one of the pulls I went to. I pulled 3 different sleds. The heavy sled on the hard track that I like and perfer to pull my Case on showed just how much of a joke the R was. My R ran as good as any R, but it was still a under powered tractor for it's weight. If you pull a stock R and you don't power out it was because the chain on the sled was short or the track was crap. It's bad when I can get as much HP out of a Case that weighs 3500 pounds with all stock parts as a R diesel. Your complaining about the 1960 year change. I wish they would change it, but again it's not my fault that deere was so far behind on there design. If it were up to me they would have had 4 cyl. tractors in 1929. Maybe they should have stuck with there plows and left the tractors to companies that really knew what they were doing. I can just see all them plow engineers shakeing in there boots when that first waterloo boy rolled in the shop. Long after other manufactures were designing and building tractors.

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G Taylor

05-08-2003 08:59:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to CASEPOWER, 05-06-2003 11:15:55

If you pull the large chassis R,80,820,830,840 why bother with the early "R" design? The 80 and better yet 820 blackdash and later will out power an "R". Even a bone stock 80/green dash 820 will spin out in creeper in the 12,000lb class on hard clay. Seems there were pleny of happy "R" owners in the west working thousands of acres on less diesel per acre than anyone else.

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G-MAN

05-08-2003 15:47:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G Taylor, 05-08-2003 08:59:55

Casepower is one of those pullers that doesn't believe it's real tractor pulling unless you're going 10 mph down the track. He also has little use for old tractors other than pulling and parting them out for a source of income. He's certainly entitled to his opinion, but there will always be more pullers on our side of the fence than his. Although it's more expensive to pull in the "super" classes, I imagine it's generally easier to win. Far less competition, you know.

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G-MAN

05-06-2003 15:59:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to CASEPOWER, 05-06-2003 11:15:55

Man it's easy to get you going, lol.

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supermpuller4

05-05-2003 16:25:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 15:55:43

The IH boy's are spending lots of money thats for sure. your not going to get more HP out a 4010 gas, so at 7000 lbs and under the 460 IH will win, and 7000 lbs and over the Moline will win. You better stick to your two poppers.

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a puller

05-05-2003 19:31:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to supermpuller4, 05-05-2003 16:25:13

I will guarantee you that a 4010 can mop up in the 7000lb class, I have a cousin that has his down to 6200 and still has alot to take off. raise it up..and we'll see who wins!!

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David

05-06-2003 04:37:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to a puller, 05-05-2003 19:31:37

At what rpm? I will almost bet it's at unlimited rpm, isn't it. This is probably the same kind of person that pulls a hot stock tractor in a stock farm class instead of pulling their "hot" 4010 against real competition. At 20% or 30% over stock rpm, which is what we are discussing hear (antique pulling), the John Deere is a joke.

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G-MAN

05-06-2003 07:41:41

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to David , 05-06-2003 04:37:09

What's the difference? Is there some magical RPM that a Deere can turn that the competition can't? If he's pulling unlimited RPM, it's a pretty sure bet that the others in his class are as well, is it not? Who's making excuses now?

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David

05-06-2003 11:52:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-06-2003 07:41:41

You didn't read my post very well. I said he's probably pulling a hot 4010 against FARM STOCK tractors instead of going up a class to pull against other hot tractors. That seems to be the only way of 4010 can win around here. If he has a suped up tractor, let him pull against other hot tractors, not FARM STOCK tractor. He is doing exactly what you say others are doing to your beloved two cylinders in Div. 2.

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a puller

05-06-2003 17:24:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to David, 05-06-2003 11:52:49

this 4010 has 110 horse.

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Mfarmallpuller

05-06-2003 21:06:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to a puller, 05-06-2003 17:24:09

well my 1066 has 160 horse

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David

05-05-2003 11:00:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to G-MAN, 05-05-2003 07:42:34

You don't really know anything do you? There were probably more Moline U's and UB's out there with G blocks and cranks farming everyday than there were John Deere's with Heisler head. The G blocks and cranks were NOT just put in for tractor pulling. They were a dealer installed option or kit. I know I have a UB that we bought that way, and yes it was a farm tractor when we bought it, not a pulling tractor. My uncle had a M602 (a newer replacement for the U UB) that had a G kit in it. That was one of the best farm tractors I have ever drove. It would run circles around a much bigger 6 cylinder G900.
It was common for farmer back in the fify's and sixty's to essentially bore and stroke Moline's. Lots of U's and UB's had the bigger bore jugs put on to get a little more power. It was cheaper than buying a new bigger tractor.
As for letting John Deere 4010's in antique, bring it on. You raise the year and you will let the Moline boys run GVI's that will eat a 4010 any day of the week!

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For the record

05-05-2003 12:38:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to David, 05-05-2003 11:00:49

GVIs are already pulling Division V in the NATPA. Curtis Rink and Kevin Brownfield each pull one in 7,500lbs and 8,500 lbs. I don't think they're exactly blowing everyone away. You can check the year end point standings at www.natpa.com. While you're there you might want to count the Deere winners vs. Farmall vs. Minnies vs. Olivers. If the NATPA tried to stack the deck for Deere people they didn't do a very good job. I think they should lower the speed limit in all classes to 1.5 mph.

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David

05-05-2003 14:03:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to For the record, 05-05-2003 12:38:54

I was talking about Div. 4 and under. If the GVI's aren't kicking butt in Div. 5, what is Brad Begeman pulling then?

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Slo

05-01-2003 19:19:32

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Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to FLATLANDER, 05-01-2003 08:36:44

Call Motec. 765 963 6628. He'll steer you in the right direction.

80hp is easy. M5 blocks, G crank, and you are almost there. Cheaply, too.

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05-01-2003 19:44:58

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Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to Slo, 05-01-2003 19:19:32

with the M5 blocks and G crank you better hit a 100hp or regroup on who is steering you ..

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Error: No Name

05-02-2003 03:05:47

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Re: Re: Re: MOLINE U 80-100 HP QUESTION--THINKING ABOUT PULLING in reply to LW, 05-01-2003 19:44:58

Yes, I agree with LW. In low gear with a G crank, 6" stroke, the tractor won't hook up.

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