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Lost engine

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ChadS

07-02-2003 12:38:48




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I know I am going catch heck for this, so go one rub it in,, Something Wilder is not running again. i started it this morning and there was water in the 2-3 cyl. i am running a copper head gasket trying to hold 300+psi with out o-ring in the block, gasket, or head. I removed the cyl head and found a stress crack between 2-3 next to a water port. So, i have another block that is 4 inch bore instead of 4.125. the damaged block would run as long as there was water running only in the head????? See! I don't know it all, you can go too big on the bore, just found the limit for an H. I have a 350 block this time it does have a lot more meat to seal a head gasket at 4 inch bore. Just wanted to share the bad news for me, please don't rub it in too bad fellas!!! I'll try and be a good sport..

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Seen it before

07-04-2003 09:59:25




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 Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-02-2003 12:38:48  
You must have bought some of Dennys magic parts! Did you get your specs. from him?



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ChadS

07-04-2003 12:15:01




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 Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to Seen it before, 07-04-2003 09:59:25  
No! I don't belive in magic Denny anything. I think he has some good prices on the M stroker kits for the crank pistons and rods. I don't know if they are any good when you put it all together, but just buying a crank is not too awful bad. Nothing saying you could not modify his parts to make them better though. If I was building a budget tractor"div 1-2", If and only if my crank builder could not do a crank, I would keep Denny in mind. I know there is a lot of better tecnology out there, but he is one of the firsts to advertise these parts. I kind of belive that if someone bought his pistons,or complete stroker kits, just the short block, and start over, 350 cubes can make some good power for an M. There is probably alot of room for improvement for what he offers. Me personally, I have not bought any kind of parts for a puller that I did not not have to modify or change to get the most hp for my dollar.

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TimC

07-03-2003 09:18:00




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 Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-02-2003 12:38:48  
You do have one other possibe option. Take a carbide bit and cut a v around the connection between the sleeve and block. Braze in the tops of the sleeve and block as a solid peice and then redeck the block. This is the only way as far as I know to keep the block from splitting without using a deck plate. Deck plate motors have another advantage besides strength. They allow (force) you to use a longer rod which reduces side wall pressure which give you more hp from less friction.

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ChadS

07-04-2003 09:47:10




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 Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to TimC, 07-03-2003 09:18:00  
I am thinking about having the block welded some how and redeck the top. I think I am going to build a thicker copper head gasket to back off the compression. I think the high cyl pressure lifted the head and put too much strain on the block. It is a 1952 H engine, have heard of 350 blocks being a little stronger, I have a 350 block with aftermarket sleeves bored to 4, it looks a lot better than the 4.125 bore, The block I have is "block filled up to the bottom of the water plate on the carb side of engine, should I fill it all the way to the top and run water in the head only?

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TimC

07-04-2003 10:19:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-04-2003 09:47:10  
You can put studs in the block to keep it still but you still need something to keep the block from splitting down the middle. The brass will tend to make the sleeves and block one unit and keep everything together. Unless you plan to lug it down to low rpms 300 psi should be ok. If you know someone with a boring bar you can have them cut a receiver groove in the block then take 35 thousandts (spelling) 70 psi wire from a wire welder and install your own O-rings. Use super glue to keep them in place while you start them in the groove. I believe you should have about 5 thousandts sticking above the deck afterwards but i can't remember for sure. If you fill the block you have to let it cool between pulls with and electric water pump and fan. Pulling back to back is not good for it and piston to wall clearance and ring end gap have to be right. I would be sure to run one of the extreame pressure anti-friction metal treatments in my oil. Forget what the Wise acres say about snake oil. One of the best pullers in 4000 div 5 uses it and bought it from another div 5 leader in 5000 lb.

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ChadS

07-04-2003 11:57:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to TimC, 07-04-2003 10:19:26  
Thank you for some very good advice, I am going to use your suggestion about Brazing the sleeves to the block, and the rest of the damaged areas. I probably cannot mill the deck much just enough to make it true. I usually use coppercoat on the copper head gasket, the las time I used Edlebrock gaskacinch. I would not recommend that stuff for any thing head gasket related, maybe for stock gaskets, what do you think?

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TimC

07-04-2003 18:28:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-04-2003 11:57:11  
Some well known builders use the red high temp silicon. The copper high temp silicon would work also but i would rather use the copper spray. Once you have a good seal around the sleeves you shouldn't have to worry about water. I like the looks of the K1000 gaskets from lubbock gasket also. Let the spray dry about 20 to 30 minutes and get good and tacky and not wet anymore. Fresh head bolts wouldn't hurt anything if you can't find studs.

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ChadS

07-04-2003 18:48:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to TimC, 07-04-2003 18:28:37  
I can build the copper gasket, If I oring the block, what has to be done to the gasket? Does it have to be cut for the ring? or should I try just the gasket and sealer method first?



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TimC

07-05-2003 09:59:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-04-2003 18:48:03  
Personally, i would try the gasket first. Nothing would have to be done to the copper gasket for the O-Ring method but the interferance is critical. I believe that the O-Ring is supposed to be no more than .005 to .007 above the deck but i am sure that there are other opinions on this. With heavy studs you could probably run a little more interferance.



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ChadS

07-05-2003 13:15:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost engine in reply to TimC, 07-05-2003 09:59:00  
I wanted to thank you for sharing you ideas with me! I really thought I would have a new boat anchor, but you have given me hope. What kind of tractor do you pull? I hope I will get Something Wilder going again soon, When I do, I am going to put a sign on the tractor that says "Thanks TimC" and thank you here at YT! Like I said, thanks again!



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Buck

07-02-2003 20:25:45




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 Re: Lost engine in reply to ChadS, 07-02-2003 12:38:48  
Put a steel deck plate on it. Do you have a limited slip for a F-30??



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