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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Dragster framed tractors

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ChadS

11-17-2003 15:59:22

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I have been thinking,, I seen a 460 get into 3500 lb class. it was not a factory rear end tractor,, it was a dragster frame. I don't know,, but what happened to having to have a factory housing in a pulling class? To me,, it is not antique pulling,, it is an unlimited type tractor. nothing original but the sheet metal or possibly the engine. Is this the wave of the future for antique pulling?? Will we soon see tractors like this in a div 4 or 3 class? I am all for improvement and technology,, but I was lead to belive,, that dragster type framed tractors belonged in the ATPA,, or the NTPA,,,in the unlimited classes.. Is that what div 5 has come to? Why stop there then? why not V8's in these tractors? Like I said,, this is antique pulling, for most of us,, a big stroker engine is as far as it gets,, but they are in a factory frame. Some have said that I am hidding,, in the USAP,, maybe,, but I pull with a group who belive in what I belive in,, where the one who has the most money in their machine does not rule the classes. It is fair,, a speed limit, an rpm limit, tire size and hitch and safety equipment. Like the old fashioned pulling that I was raised with. To me,, the custom framed tractors don't belong in antique pulling,, I don't know,, maybe I am just behind the times. Who knows??? What do you think??? ChadS

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History

11-23-2003 05:46:37

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Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 15:59:22

Early 460's had an "H" transmission. What's an "H" weigh? There's your answer

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chads

11-24-2003 06:40:47

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to History, 11-23-2003 05:46:37

Is it like a 300-350 rear end? with the TA? I know that my grandpa had one,, the had a small axle,, so yes I would belive that. Maybe that is what he did. if that's the case,, Happy pulling to him

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Indiana Puller

11-17-2003 16:47:47

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Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 15:59:22

LEESE IN NATPA YOU HAVE TO USE THE ORIGINAL STOCK BLOCK USAP RULES THEY DONT CARE WHAT KIND OF MOTOR YOU USE THAT WHY I PULL NATPA AND NOT USAP SO I DONT NO WHY YOU DOWN THE NATPA

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ChadS

11-17-2003 18:54:05

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to Indiana Puller, 11-17-2003 16:47:47

Ok,, From my experience,, the engine rules are what you say in the USAP. BUT,,, There is only a few who actually take advantage of it,, IN THE SUPER PRO STOCK.. The rules say you can use deck plates, and girdles. But still have to be a stock framed tractor,, no aluminum rails or what have you. The only reason these "Big" tractors are in the light classes is because they don't want to pull against someone who is a dedicated puller, who still has a stock casting rear end. They would rather drive out the competition and make the rules as they go along,, for them,, to their advantage. We have all seen it. It is called POLITICS!!! Not pulling. John Lampkin has the right idea on where his organization wants to be. He is for the pullers,, When was the last time you heard of a NATPA board member do that for the little guys? Not talking about lightweight tractors either. There is no complaining down there in the USAP,, everyone gets along,, and don't think they are the best and nobody can beat them,, Sure,, that is competition,, but it is not right that someone bashes,, or tells someone that their tractors is not up to snuff,, just because they pull NATPA. I have been there,, way before most pullers today. when it all began,, seen too many BS rule changes half way through the classes,, DQs for no reason, and technical inspections just to nit pick,, That was my expereince with the NATPA,, It may not be like that today,, but that was the way it was back then. Just don't be surprised when those dragsters come in,, Chads

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Better Look Closer

11-17-2003 17:21:59

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to Indiana Puller, 11-17-2003 16:47:47

How can you call the engine in Bears tractor a stock block? It is a 6 cylinder diesel block from a much newer and bigger tractor with two V 8 truck heads on it with homemade manifolds. You should take a closer look at the horse $hit association you are bragging up. I will take USAP any day over the crooks running NATPA!

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ChadS

11-17-2003 16:50:05

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to Indiana Puller, 11-17-2003 16:47:47

I am not!!!!! !!! I had an opinion,, that is all more like an inquiry.

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N O S north of seventy pu

11-17-2003 16:29:59

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Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 15:59:22

JUST MAYBE YOU OTTA COME TO A NATPA PULL !!!!! ! THANKSGIVING WEEK END TO LEARN ABOUT THE DIFFERANCE IN ALL 5 DIVISIONS IVE GOT A STOCK DRAWBAR I WILL LONE YOU FOR DIV 1 PS WAUSEON IS FOUR HOURS CLOSER THAN PRINSTON FARMALL M PULLER

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ChadS

11-17-2003 16:48:30

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to N O S north of seventy pu, 11-17-2003 16:29:59

Thanks,, I have made the USAP my tradition,, Maybe I will come see you Serious boys sometime this winter,,,, I am just a little fish in a small pond!!!

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what??

11-17-2003 16:52:28

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Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 16:48:30

I have been hungry for fish---see you in Wauseon, OH!!

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ChadS

11-17-2003 18:36:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:52:28

LOL,, This little fish is going to Princeton, You big fish sound just too tough for me and my little H LOL. You talk a great talk, Nothing personal.. Chads

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what??

11-17-2003 16:29:44

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Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 15:59:22

NATPA has no "dragster frame rails" tractors; in fact, most of the ones that got busted last year for alum frame rails (NOT FACTORY FRAME RAILS) were USAP boys! Get off your wild idea of "dragster stuff" that you see in the issues of Hot Rod, JEGS, and Boy Scouts R Us and go to a NATPA pull! Lemmons is the man on IH, they are WILDER than anything I've heard from others....

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in the dark

11-18-2003 07:35:06

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:29:44

you must not be looking when Baker M's come down the track

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ChadS

11-17-2003 16:42:27

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Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:29:44

Then hoe does a 460 get that light then?

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what??

11-17-2003 16:49:32

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Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 16:42:27

it's called tractor pulling son! How do you get so much power out of your H, how does the fax machine work, how many licks to the center of a tootie roll pop? Ask 1st before you bash! When have you EVER saw USAP go to the extent NATPA is now of rules! Instead of bashing a guy for getting a 460 lite, watch, listen, learn! why not come to wauseon, there is a LOT of people wanting to see the H! Or take N.O.S. advice and go get his stock hitch!

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Chads

11-17-2003 18:41:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:49:32

Good point,, How many lick does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop!! The world may never know until they try,, right? What my point was, and still is,, that these tractors do exist, and are comming to a pull near you. Is that what you big boys want? It is one thing to pull a "Prostock" and it is another to pull a superstock, Big differences in the two,, It makes no difference if you think I am complaining,, dosen't change my opinion though,, I still think it is a money game in those classes,, I have no problem with pullers who still do it the ol fashioned way,, ChadS

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minnie ub

11-17-2003 17:53:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:49:32

relatively new to this ant. pulling. but i have tried to watch and learn. just how do you get a 460 down to 3500 class. common sense tells me alumnium and alot of it. but we're probably beating a dead horse,it seems to me natpa div 5 and usap 12mph class only a hand full pull in it anyway so that makes most of us as wantabes. not all the times is more rules a good thing. just from what i've seen and heard over the last 2 years i'm going to princeton on thanksgiving.

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minnie ub

11-17-2003 17:57:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to minnie ub, 11-17-2003 17:53:39

p. s. love to watch those div 5 and 12 mph tractors run!

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ChadS

11-17-2003 18:56:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to minnie ub, 11-17-2003 17:57:06

Me too,, me too,,

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ChadS

11-17-2003 16:51:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:49:32

LOL,, Why dont the Serious boys come to princeton and show us farm boys how to do it then?

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what??

11-17-2003 16:53:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 16:51:50

yes, princeton, in NATPA...NOT USAP pull! Will be watching paint dry that weekend!

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Tyler Neff

11-17-2003 19:15:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:53:45

USAP,NATPA,alluminum,dragster framed Im sure they fall into a class somewhere and WHO CARES . As long as there following the rules. The guy with the tube framed tractor can pull it where the rules allow that crap.I dont think for one second that its an antique pullin tractor though.All those clubs and orginazations that were mentioned say antique. I dont think that frame is antique is it? Let the old guy with all the money pull his little homeade binder wherever he can get away with it.He paid for it, let him have some fun too.

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ChadS

11-17-2003 22:00:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tracto in reply to Tyler Neff, 11-17-2003 19:15:12

I do agree with you Tyler.. I do think that tractors like that are cool and all,, but against a stock framed tractor,, there is no comparison.. look at he different balance advantage those machines would have!! I personally don't care what kind of tractor it is. I know that if I did that,, People would tar and feather me,, just because it was not a tractor,, why? I would want to pull it in the div 3 and 4 LOL,, it could happen,,, My resoning for this conversation is this,, I know some big time pullers who said they are going to petition to let these tractors pull in div 5. It alarmed me,, especially when I hear of A 460 in 3500lbs class. man,, if that is not a homemade frame, or not made of mostly alumninum,, I would like to know how it is possible,, heck I have trouble getting below 3500 with an H!!! I have done it,, but there was alot of parts that was removed, ChadS

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Jordan Lustik

11-17-2003 23:03:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tr in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 22:00:40

Chad, there are NO tube frame tractors in the NATPA! We ACTUALLY have tech checks that threw out at least 3 tractors last year for having aluminum frame rails, frames that are definetely not stock! Also, I don't know where the idea came up that people could run component rear ends, but whoever thought that up is nuts. Hey Chad, also think about this point: 3 years ago, the idea of an 88 in the 3500 lb. class was crazy, now there are at least 4 that can make it, so why is a 460 any different, it's called advancement, not being complacent with the same old technology. You are going to sit there and tell me that individuals with Division V 88's should pull the 5000 lb. class against 1000+ cubic inch Case's and Moline's, your nuts. The people that are willing to spend the money to build such motors do not want to sit in the heavy classes and never get to see what they can actually do, they might as well be pulling a mph class (USAP ring a bell?). For proof, name someone besides Hutson, who pulls USAP "open" classes that actually finishes in 1st place at an NATPA pull..... ...I'm waiting

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Jeff

11-18-2003 15:16:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster frame in reply to Jordan Lustik, 11-17-2003 23:03:01

Yea ya'll have tech checks, I have seen them in action. Were you at Murray last year? There was a local guy who brought his tractor up there Sunday mornign and had it inspected and PASSED for Div II that morning even though he had his fuel tank on the front. He was willing to run Div III because if that but YOUR tech man said it would be legal for Div II. He pulled two classes and won both. Imagine his surprise when he found out he was diqualified for his fuel tank! Now this isn't something that could have been missed in the inspection I wouldn't think.

NATPA has alot of good rules for safety and I have set up my tractor by alot of them even though I don't pull with them. But if an organization will ok a tractor in the morning and disqualify him after 2 classes for something you can see from 100 feet away, I just plain wouldn't trust them. I'll be the first to admit that according tothe rules at the time he should have pulled Div III because of the fuel tank but the tech man should have said that before the pull. If he was ok and nothing wrong then his pulls should have been allowed.

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ChadS

11-18-2003 07:21:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster frame in reply to Jordan Lustik, 11-17-2003 23:03:01

Mr Lustik,, The Silver Bullet. Wow. Are you one in the same? I seen you at Goshen Indiana. First of all,, they had no weight classifications for the MM or the Case tractors,, well below 4500. At the time,, these tractors "outclassed" and dominated the lighter classes. An 88 can get that light,, the shipping weights were around 4000Lbs for the 88. Ok,, lets look at the 460. I have seen some stripped down 460's, still having the factory frame, and having trouble getting below 4500. with aluminum rims too. Ok,, I do know that the early 460's had small diameter axles,, wihtout using aluminum parts,, there still is no way,, without these parts, it would be able to get that light. Tell you what,, Look at Bill and Craig Brooks,, from Cuba Ill. Craig had the Wild Thang,, a few years back,, he had trouble running 4500 with that very tractor, not enough weight to keep it down,, and there was no aluminum on it,, at the time,, He had no trouble running with the big MM or the Case, or Olivers. Just like in the ATPA,, How the JD,, called the Squeeler,, is a dominant force when it pulls,, Overhead cam? on alcohol. Every one is still complaining about him but they still let him run in an unlimited class,, the same as the Silver Bullet. Right? I know for a fact that I have no problems with an 88 in 3500,, because it is possible to get them light. A 460,, on the other hand,, Something fishy,, when you see them below 4500. Ok,, I accept the fact that there is no tube framed tractors in NATPA.. I apologise for that,, I just made the comment that that 460,, whether it is still running a factory rear end or not,, stock block or not,, is funny that he has to be in the light classes. Division 5 is like that I guess. As far as Jim Hutson is concerned,, I would belive he is competitive where ever he goes,, he has a tough W40. but,, you don't see him below 4000, now do ya? And there is less to a W40 than there is to a 460. Mr. Lustik,, you know as well as I do,, that it takes experience to win at pulling,, yeah sometimes others get lucky. But when the technology out runs the experience,, someone needs to look at the technology. Just like the Squeeler. The technology of the overhead cam, is in a class of it's own,, Is it legal,, or not,, does pullers complain, or not,, It is the smae catagory to raise an eyebrow,, to take a second look. Chads

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C'mon Chad, answer Jordan

11-18-2003 05:56:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster frame in reply to Jordan Lustik, 11-17-2003 23:03:01

Jordan is right! I have thought long and hard about this one! There is NO USAP puller (a USAP puller being someone that attends most of there pulls) and then attends a NATPA event and ever gets 1st. Hutson hits some USAP stuff, but other than that???? who??? An M from Indiana (Brian Zeck?) once bragged how strong it was after a USAP pull (2 or 3 1st..WOW!!), then went to Murray, Ky---oops, boy that sled there pulled just a little harder! I'll take the best USAP stuff (Ultimate Super Modified Pro Extreme Hot whatever they call it!) and take any good Div 3 NATPA boys and let them go "wild" on the USAP stuff! NATPA has changed from what little I've seen; you started this "wild" post! Sounds like you got a really fun winter ahead, what 50 USAP pulls at Princeton, IN---wow, that sounds really fun! Heard last year they treated you boys right with a frozen tundra! You'd think they'd have a Louisville type track for anyone that thinks it's fun to go to the same place 50 times in one winter! Will you guys take turns pulling each others tractors, too?

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11-18-2003 15:10:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to C'mon Chad, answer Jordan, 11-18-2003 05:56:42

HAHA....Jim Hutson....my dad and me made a friendly bet on this tractor once...i bet he would get beat by Micheal Tomac(spelling?).....welll in tunica Michael 1st Hutson 2nd.....but he beat Brooks and numerous other NATPA members in the class..went to murray and seen michael get 2 3rd's i think..... .BUT with no weight on that tractor and a 200!!!!! foot track didn't have much of a chance

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Family Tradition

11-18-2003 10:09:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to C'mon Chad, answer Jordan, 11-18-2003 05:56:42

does Adam Camm (Indiana Eagle) pull any NATPA? one tough case!

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Wauseon, OH?

11-18-2003 11:23:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragst in reply to Family Tradition, 11-18-2003 10:09:02

tell Adam to come to Wauseon, Ohio! I've heard his 600 will run!

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ChadS

11-18-2003 07:29:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to C'mon Chad, answer Jordan, 11-18-2003 05:56:42

No one had any problems pulling over and over again at Hartford, KY,, Columbus OH, Wilmington OH,,at the time,, Columbia MO, all those places,, you have pullers that are veterns of certain tracks. Right? Yes,, Zeck learned a lesson down in Murray. Aint the biggest fish in the pond. everyone learns that one time or another. I know I have
Like I said to Lustik,, When the technology out runs experience,, then some one needs to look again on what is going on. Don't matter what organization is better, or who pulls where,, Should they be allowed or not,, obviously the are allowed,, in Div 5,, that is what a 5 tractor is all about right? I accept the fact that there is no tube tractors in NATPA,, Ok I apologise,, but there will be soon,, maybe not today,, or tomarrow,, but soon,, and then the rules will change again. ChadS

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The Professor

11-18-2003 08:59:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragst in reply to ChadS, 11-18-2003 07:29:58

Jordan Lustik mt A$$!! Whatever that guy smoked for breakfast was mighty rank!! That guy doesn't know anything about an antique tractor much less a SS. All of these idots that know everything need to get out from behind their computers and go to a few tractor pulls, I bet half of ya'll so called experts don't even own a pulling tractor.

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The Student

11-18-2003 09:09:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr in reply to The Professor, 11-18-2003 08:59:21

Why does anyone need to go to a pull or try to learn--ChadS KNOWS IT ALL!!!

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ChadS

11-18-2003 10:44:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to The Student, 11-18-2003 09:09:51

I am not a know it all, I am a very outspoken, opinionated, and down to earth person.

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ChadS

11-17-2003 18:34:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tractors in reply to what??, 11-17-2003 16:53:45

Ok,, Ya talked me into it, See ya then!! ChadS

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Red

11-18-2003 07:30:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tracto in reply to ChadS, 11-17-2003 18:34:47

Question? As far as original frame rails? I junked the rails from my H and built new rails out of 4 inch chanel iron that extends in front of the tractor and down with the weight bracket built in to it. It is a safety issue since I put up to 750 pounds of weight up front to keep the nose down in the 5500 Div 3 pound class.(lost alot of weight when I junked the bolster and built a new liter one) The frame isnt "original" but made the exact way and out of the exact stuff, just safer now. Havent pulled up north but here in Texas nobody has a problem with it. Would it pass up north????? As far as people pushing the limits. From what I do to my tractor and what I see and hear. It is usually the same guys and tractors improving their machines. Div 3-5 pullers I rarely hear of a division 3-5 puller complaining of what the guy in his calss did to his tractor to beat him. It is usually the stock guys trying to interpret the rules for the guys in the higher division. My opinion is mind your own business or jump up a division or what have you and play, then you can criticize the rules in your new class.

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ChadS

11-18-2003 12:05:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tr in reply to Red, 11-18-2003 07:30:03

If it is steel and not a safety issue,, yes you can pull up north,, Basicly stock in appearence in most classes, but, bolsters and pedistals can be altered,, Chads

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Mr. Ed

11-18-2003 10:33:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster framed tr in reply to Red, 11-18-2003 07:30:03

The reason there is so much complaining and whining in the NATPA is because they let tractors pull multiple divisions. What would put a big halt on allot of this whining is only let each tractor pull one division. I could care less what a division 5 tractor does or has. The problem is some also pulling division 4 class for a practice run for his 5 class. The same goes for division 4 tractors in the division 3 class. If you do not want people in the division below you complaining about rules in upper divisions (that they do not pull in) keep the upper division tractors out of the lower division classes. This is one of the two reasons I no longer pull with the NATPA. The other is the Birch RPM Allis favoritism rule. You know what NATPA stands for, and division 5 is a prime example. Not Antique Tractor Puller Allowed!

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The Student

11-18-2003 11:27:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster frame in reply to Mr. Ed, 11-18-2003 10:33:28

NATPA is National Antique Tractor Pulling Association. Antique pullers are the biggest whiners and people like Ed/ChadS prove it! Go pull, bring your wives (oops sorry), and have fun!!

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A FAN

11-18-2003 16:22:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to The Student, 11-18-2003 11:27:09

IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHINERS CECK THE THE GUYS OUT FROM BRADFORD

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NOT

11-18-2003 21:02:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragst in reply to A FAN, 11-18-2003 16:22:23

NOT ME!!! your busted. That spelling gave you away. LOL

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ChadS

11-18-2003 12:02:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to The Student, 11-18-2003 11:27:09

Hey pal,, I have proved everything I need to prove to myself. If you don't belive me,, Look in the past January issues of the Hook magazine,, under the USAP championship pull,, I am in every final result listing since the begining of the USAP. 3500, 4000, 4500, I hope to make it 5 in a row this year. Don't be bashing personal lives,, in due time you will see me at a NATPA pull getting re educated in pulling against the best. If I win, or lose,, I will be happy I showed up no matter what. Chads

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Tyler Neff

11-18-2003 11:40:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to The Student, 11-18-2003 11:27:09

Leave the guys personal life outta this you little b@#$h! This is about pulling not wives. So you can now go deflate yours and put your weiner back in your mouth.

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ChadS

11-18-2003 11:57:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragst in reply to Tyler Neff, 11-18-2003 11:40:54

Thank you,, well said ChadS

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MR. Ed

11-18-2003 11:39:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragster f in reply to The Student, 11-18-2003 11:27:09

People like the student Is why he is a student, because he not too smart. Maybe a smart a$$!

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A FAN

11-18-2003 16:19:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dragst in reply to MR. Ed, 11-18-2003 11:39:18

IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHINERS CHECK ON THE GUYS FROM BRADFORD

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Detective MO

11-19-2003 20:05:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr in reply to A FAN, 11-18-2003 16:19:37

Hey Fan, I got your whiner SWINGIN!

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Cody

11-19-2003 18:14:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr in reply to A FAN, 11-18-2003 16:19:37

Maybe this is why antique pulling is going to heII? I've been looking for the reason!

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Tyler Neff

11-19-2003 19:33:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Cody, 11-19-2003 18:14:13

No need to look any further

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The Professor

11-20-2003 10:23:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Tyler Neff, 11-19-2003 19:33:07

I've been looking for the same answer. It is ashame that none of these hoodlums can act like grown ups and carry on a decent conversation. It seems eveytime they write something, their IQ drops a few. I think some of these kats are kin to Micheal Jackson!! Class dismissed!!

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ChadS

11-20-2003 11:22:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to The Professor, 11-20-2003 10:23:32

If i offended anyone,, I am sorry. Aint no relation to Michael though.. LOL..

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