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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Farmall M motor build up

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Red Pulling Mac

12-21-2003 10:43:43




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WAs wondering what would be a good combination with a 6 1/4 stroke...its a 450 block and was wondering what would be a good piston to use between 4 1/4 and 4 3/8. also could i use the stock rods....also what kind of power would you expect with a gas head




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BUD BARENIE

01-03-2004 10:00:44




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 Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to Red Pulling Machine, 12-21-2003 10:43:43  
DOES THE INSERT RING AT TOP POSSIBLY CREATE PREDETONATION BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT TRANSFER HEAT, JUST A QUESTION !!! WHAT TYPE OF PISTONS ARE USED FOR 4.375 SAY AT ABOUT 6" STROKE !!



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DAVID EARLY

03-29-2006 13:25:55




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 Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to BUD BARENIE, 01-03-2004 10:00:44  
i building a farmall m with a 450 motor like to to get much a i can out of motor



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farmall

01-04-2004 08:29:44




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 Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to BUD BARENIE, 01-03-2004 10:00:44  
The insert ring should be a press fit. Metal to metal press transfers temp. well. The rings are not that thin to be a problem. As far as pistons, I use custom pistons, from Arias or BRC. They are both on the web. Hope this helps.



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BUD BARENIE

01-05-2004 16:12:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to farmall, 01-04-2004 08:29:44  
APPREACIATE THE INFO. AT 4.375 X 6" SMALL BUILD WILL THAT CREATE ENOUGH COMPRESSION TO BRING HP UP ? 400-450 GASS HEAD 180CC COMBUSTION CHAMBER.
ANY OPINION ON BIGGGER INTAKLE VALVE !~!!!
BUILDING A DIVISION 2 FIRST GEAR PULLER, 15.5-38 TIRE LIMIT. RUNNING 4.125 X 5.25 NOW, NOT ENOUGH,
FIRST ACTUALL MINI MODIFIED MOTOR !!!
THANK YOU !! BUD BARENIE



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farmall

01-07-2004 12:56:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to BUD BARENIE, 01-05-2004 16:12:50  
450 lp head 128cc, 450 gas head 187cc, m gas head 198cc. For div.2 10 to 1 comp. would be great. You need a better cam. If you can find a 450 cam and degree it in. Intake cen. line needs to be around 104-105 deg. This is very important! Stock valves are great. I just have them seat on outer edge of valve. Do NOT open up intake ports. They are pleanty big for this size motor. Hope this helps.



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BUD BARENIE

01-08-2004 15:02:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to farmall , 01-07-2004 12:56:34  
THE CC NUMBER FOR THE GAS HEAD IS JUST ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT I MEASURED!!! I CAN BUY EITHER A NEW CAM OR GO TO BATES IN BOURBIN, INDIANA FOR A 450 USED CAM. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS TRACTOR HAS FOR A CAM NOW EXCEPT BULLET CAM TOOK THE LIFT TO 205-205 IF THAT MEANS ANYTHING. I CALLED VOLBRECHT ON THE PISTONS HE'S ADVERTISING IN HOOK MAG. HE HASN'T ACQUIRE SLEEVES YET FOR HIS 4.25 SET UP !! KIND OF DISTURBING, ALSO HE CAN'T TELL ME THE AMOUNT OF CC'S IN THE DOME RAISE !! HE'S SUGGESTING RUNNING 4-5/16" IN THE BLOCK IN MY 264 MOTOR. BUT I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE HEAD GASKET SEALING WITH THAT TOP FLANGE OUT.

TRYING TO GET TO ABOUT 80 HP

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STILL LEARNING

12-22-2003 17:01:49




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 Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to Red Pulling Machine, 12-21-2003 10:43:43  
HEY FARMALL I HAVE A STOCK M BLOCK CAN I GO AS FAR AS 4.25 AN STILL RUN SLEEVES OR JUST DRY BLOCK.



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farmall

12-22-2003 17:47:09




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 Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to STILL LEARNING, 12-22-2003 17:01:49  
The 'M' block is 4.125 bore with the sleeves removed. 4.250 is about all you can get out of it. You really should have the wall thickness checked ultrasonicly. Most engine machine shops can do this for you. Super 'M's or 400 to 450 blocks are already 4.250 with sleeves removed. Most can go to 4.375 bore and i have herd of 4.500 bore before, but you need to check wall thickness FIRST. Hopes this helps.

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farmall

12-21-2003 14:45:48




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 Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to Red Pulling Machine, 12-21-2003 10:43:43  
'M' rods will work or 450 rods. They need to be narrowed to 1.250 wide to clear cam lobs. This also lets your crank journal stay in the center without breaking thru oil drillings in crank. Also on the rods, get rid of the rod bolts and use allen socket head cap screws. Counter bore them and machine around the big end of the rod.
with this system i have gone as far as 7.25 stroke
4.375 bore works good. Bore block and Hard block to bottom of water jacket cover to stablize cylinders. Make spacer rings to fill counter bore in the deck of block. Stock 450 head gasket works good. As far as power goes, depends on set up, compression, cam, carb and manifold. At best you can figure 2.5 ci to 4 ci to make a horse power. Hope this helps.

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RPM

12-23-2003 10:16:39




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 Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to farmall , 12-21-2003 14:45:48  
I wouldn't have to hard block a 450 block at 4.375 would I??



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DAVID EARLY

08-30-2005 16:36:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to RPM, 12-23-2003 10:16:39  
IM STARTING TO BUILD A FARMALL M THE MOTOR IS FROZE UP AND. I WANNA SEND IT OUT TO HAVE IT BORED AND STROKED ALSO GONNA TRY TO MAKE IT A ALCOHOL BURNER IF ANY ONE HAS ANY GREAT IDEAS TO MAKE IT RUN. IM 42 YRS OLD AM GOING TO GIVE THIS TO MY SUN WHEN HE IS OLD ENOUGH



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farmall

12-23-2003 11:38:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to RPM, 12-23-2003 10:16:39  
Not always. I like to half fill the block to stop hyrmonic vibrations. Believe it or not, not all 281's will take 4.375 bore. Some blocks used in warmer cliemets had nothing but water in them. They are very rusty! Plus you can have core shift. Thats why I recomend ultrasonicly checking bores for these problems. It will save problems down the road. Hope this helps.



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Flogger

12-23-2003 11:57:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to farmall, 12-23-2003 11:38:14  
Hey farmall,

Just wondering if the thin spot in a 248 is in the middle between 2 and 3? I've been trying to measure the walls on a couple and they look to be .300 or better, but right in the middle they narrow down some.



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306 m-puller

12-24-2003 08:18:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to Flogger, 12-23-2003 11:57:07  
I bored a 248 to 4.31 using sleeve. At about 4.25 we broke through the cylinder wall on the front half of every cylinder. I filled the block 1/2" from the top with hard block since there was only the thickness of the sleeve (just under 3/16")in these spots. Larry Martin - Red Light Hooker Pulling Team



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farmall

12-24-2003 10:53:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build up in reply to 306 m-puller, 12-24-2003 08:18:21  
Why did'nt you just use a 264 or 281 block?
When you bore thru cast block and sleeve, what is holding block together? Nothing! For around $300. you can get a 264-281 and bore to 4.375 of less if you wish. I have some 421 engines 4.375 x 7 that are on there 6th year with no problems. Once you bore thru block you lost the structural intregredy of the block.



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306 m-puller

12-24-2003 13:16:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor build in reply to farmall, 12-24-2003 10:53:43  
This was the first puller that I have owned/built/worked one or however you want to look at it. I'm just a kid and this was my first time inside an engine other than your 5hp Briggs in shop class. I learned alot with this build. Next time I know to stroke it. Its a learning process for me and I am the only one in my family that does it so I have been on my own the whole time. I am looking into building another one. But next time I know to go with the 264 or 281 block, but as for now shes doing fine for me. I'm not in it to win, just have fun and 3mph isnt fun enough anymore. Larry Martin - Red Light Hooker Pulling Team

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farmall

12-24-2003 13:38:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Farmall M motor bu in reply to 306 m-puller, 12-24-2003 13:16:47  
Hopefully the info here helps you and others. Farmall 'M's are fairley cheap to build, hold up well and can be tough on the track.



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