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Big pistons for G and 70 JD

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Mike Aylward

10-12-2001 18:39:03

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I am thinking of building a stroker 70 John Deere this winter and would like to find out a source for large bore pistons. Where do some of you folks get yours? Thanks for any information you can give me. Mike

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Seth Roemer

10-14-2001 09:51:05

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Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Mike Aylward, 10-12-2001 18:39:03

How can I get more power out of my Farmall H? What is the less costly way of doing it? And would it have the power to pull with 14.9x38's? Thanks for your in put.

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burns

10-14-2001 13:59:48

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Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Seth Roemer, 10-14-2001 09:51:05

I have friends that basically convert their H motor into a 300. 300 head/pistons/cam

The other option (can be very costly) to call Lemmons and have them rework your H. (765) 938-1808. They do excellent work and are very nice people to work with. With enough work and $$$ you can have yourself a 300+ cubic inch H. Can you say 3rd-4th gear OOOOO YYEEAAHH

Good luck.

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oldman70

10-14-2001 09:24:29

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Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Mike Aylward, 10-12-2001 18:39:03

how do you tell if a 70 i all-fuel or not.....is there something in the serial # that tells you or what???

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Mike Aylward- one more thing

10-12-2001 20:06:30

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Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Mike Aylward, 10-12-2001 18:39:03

I forgot to mention that these pistons are going in a Power Block. I am looking for short pin height aircraft pistons. Where else might I find some of these? I was told that an outfit in Texas might have some. Any ideas? Thanks. Mike

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Gma

10-12-2001 19:32:48

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Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Mike Aylward, 10-12-2001 18:39:03

Mike I closed out and thought of something else,an all-fuel 70 is the same bore and stroke as a "G" and yiu got the advantage of the two barrel carb. All-fuels are hard to come by,and I beleive they will handle the big bore easier than "G".Later Gman

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Gman

10-12-2001 19:25:56

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Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Mike Aylward, 10-12-2001 18:39:03

Mike try Schooler Motorsports Rt.1 Box 61 Princeton,Mo. 64673 email deere@grm.net. Ph,# is 1-660-748-4475. Alan might have some pistons,Jahns was making them but I hear they have quit doing so. Funderburke has the pistons you need but I have had trouble contacting him lately. I purchased my pistons from him,had to make a trip to S.C. to get the dome to fit block,then I sent them off and had them cerimaic coated,and used total seal rings,engine runs great will idle down to 300 rpm and pulls very good,I feel like I don't have the lugging power I should have ,I'm going to play with the timing,back it down and see what happens if I can be of farther assistance email me. Gman

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G Taylor ...question for Gman

10-13-2001 07:21:11

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Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Gman, 10-12-2001 19:25:56

How far can you stroke a late G or 70G before the stock rods hit the back of the crankcase, or anything else? What bore size is required for rod clearance? We just run a stock 70D in the 6500lb stock class at the moment. A little more torque for the end of that sticky clay track could be used. Will the late G cylinder block transplant onto the 70G without too much customizing or looking ovious?

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Gman

10-14-2001 03:24:51

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Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to G Taylor ...question for Gman, 10-13-2001 07:21:11

Gary I have never tried one using stock items,but I wiil say an 1 1/2 sroke and a F-486 block would be an interesting combination,the F-486 block would take care of extra stroke and if you wasn't up on your #'s a JD. Mechanic couldn't tell the difference. Gary the 70 all fuel is the same as a "G" bore and Stroke wise,also a 70 all fuel head will bolt up to a "G" block thus giving you two barrel carberation (illegal).When the above changes are done,the head needs to be worked on (inlarge the valves) and 3" exh. stack. Gary most of the # series all fuel tractors are fairly rare so that's another consideration. Later Gman

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JDGnut

10-16-2001 11:26:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Gman, 10-14-2001 03:24:51

Gman.. the only down fall of the F486 block is that the spark plug is basically in the same location as the F550 block. (If you are measuring from the Crank.) The longer F486 block is longer from the spark plug hole to the head. Some custom pistons could fix that problem, but I think with the 1.5 added stroke would push the piston ring past the spark plug. (Also on the 486 block it is bored bigger starting at the spark plug, cann't let the ring get past that point..) but these things are easily fixed.. a little short rod.. shorter piston.. A Jerry's Head with the spark plug in the head... A 8.25 or 8.375 crank would be closer to the ticket.. JDGnut

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G Taylor

10-16-2001 23:21:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to JDGnut, 10-16-2001 11:26:45

The F486 block, it's counter bored larger from about the plug(s) to the top deck? By how much? A short cylinder sleeve might solve the ring problem How much metal is there in there to move the sparkplug up the cylinder block towards the head. The old plug hole would be plugged/welded & a new sparkplug hole drilled/tapped as high as possible without causing head gasket sealing problems. If done clean enough most tech inspectors wouldn't notice.

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JDGnut

10-17-2001 12:40:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to G Taylor , 10-16-2001 23:21:58

G Taylor, the counter bore is about 6.5 starting about the plug to the head. There is about 1.5in from the plug to the head. I'm sure with enough time someone could weld up the hole and drill a new hole.. I'll look tonight to see what the block looks like on the inside between the plug hole and the head. I think the 486 block is going to work for me, but it would be much better if the plug hole was up about 1 in... JDGnut

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JDGnut-G Taylor

10-18-2001 16:05:16

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to JDGnut, 10-17-2001 12:40:17

I looked at the block, and it could be done.. but it would take more work than I think it would be worth.. The casting gets bigger close to the head. I think it would be better to move the plug to the head. Either weld up the factory hole and use a dummy plug or sleeve past the plug. (I have seen the dummy plugs used on the Kansas heads.) I think you could hide the plug good enough to get past most with some work.

If you wanted to get real wild you could start with a 70D, convert it to gas. You would start with 6.125 bore, but it would take some stroking but it would be strong with the 3 mains... They can just bore out the injector hole and install a plug.. (It would take a little more than that.)but just a wild Idea... later..
JDGnut

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G Taylor

10-19-2001 11:06:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to JDGnut-G Taylor, 10-18-2001 16:05:16

If the cast plug covers are moved forwards as well & the wee little automotive " peanutnut" sparkplugs? That should make things easier. With the central sparkplug ( where is always should have been) where do they find room with the valve gear in there on the head? Do they drill on an angle & sleeve through the water? Where do they sneak the plug wire(s) out. Just through a grommet on the top? If a gas or all fuel block was sleeved way oversize & welded in how far could we go before running out of water jacket between the sleeve & out casting? Once upon a time thought I seen a monster power block right out to the frame rails & even the crankcase hade to be relieved for the 7-1/2 bore? With all these cubes how are the heads ever going to flow enough?

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JDGnut

10-19-2001 19:19:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to G Taylor , 10-19-2001 11:06:05

I completely forgot about the covers over the plugs... that would hide everything.. On the plugs in the head, the plugs comes in from under the valve cover. The ones I have seen were the Kansas heads that had this cast into them, so I do not think they had to sleeve them. I have a friend that did this to his G head, and they had to sleeve it for the plugs. I don't know how far you can go on the 70 blocks.. We have 2 70's that we pull with one is 721cid and the other is in the high 600's.. I think one is almost 7in bore.. and I think the big one is over 7. I have been told that the G powerblocks can go to 7.5... Gman is running one of those recasted 7.5 blocks.. they takes some serious work to get in the crank case.. Cut down the timing gear, and cut out the opening where the block bolts to the case.. so thin that some even grind through to the out side and have to fill it in... they are monsterous... On the airflow.. Jerrys can do a number on the head.. they can clean it up good, and put bigger valves in... (other machine shops can do this too.) Take the intake and cut out the center, this allows the cylinders to draw air and fuel from both barrels of the carb, this will feed some big cid's.. got to go.. later
JDGnut

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G Taylor ....... custom aluminium heads for 70 gas

10-21-2001 13:15:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to JDGnut, 10-19-2001 19:19:54

I know a fellow in Texas that is getting some custom aluminium heads done for the 70G. After the cores are made the heads are cheap. Will keep you posted. Have to find out if they are leaving room for a sparkplug.

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G Taylor

10-14-2001 13:46:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to Gman, 10-14-2001 03:24:51

I'm going to have to get a G parts manual to cross reference with the 70G manual. Wondering about stock looking cooling plumbing with the 70's water pump & G cylinder block. 70 all fuel row crops were only 6.9 % of production at 2509 units & 7.69% of standard production at 385 units. Think I'll start sniffing around for a 70 power block, a G block or any old 70G block to sleeve to see what's out there. The 70's all fuel head seems different than the 70 gas head. Besides the all fuel's valves being larger the valve stems are a different length. Wonder which head flows more. Those all fuel valves in a gas head should increase airflow if the valve bowls were blended to match? The A/60 rods would allow some offset grinding to pickup some easy extra stroke.How much extra stroke with just the 70 rods before cam & case interference? Any problems with cam/lifter wear with the reduced contact area after grinding. The old girl works so well stock I hesitate to tear into it. She's lugging down to maybe 700-800 rpm at track end just as the front rises & she spins out in 1st gear in the 6500 class last year. However there is no "room to ease back the throttle to get out of a hole. Once she bites in again she just bogs & stalls if at part throttle. Maybe safer to leave it full throttle & hope for the best in a hole. But if I get more traction with shorter lugs & some weight on the front she'll be out of power before spinning on this track again. Only had the 435 at the pull this year but with this years perfect moisture it was a sticky clay power track that stalled or lugged down tractors in 1st gear that normally run in 2nd. Happened to other guys besides myself with "tuned" 2-53 Detroit & "cut"16.9x30's in 1st gear.

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deere puller

10-13-2001 20:38:01

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Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to G Taylor ...question for Gman, 10-13-2001 07:21:11

8.75" stroke will clear the back in a G with JD A rods. You may have to grind a little on the back of the case but won't have to cut it out. You will have to grind your cam down and grind up top to get it to swing. Bore size is not a problem with this stroke, you can leave it stock if you want.

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ToddF

10-17-2001 15:26:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: big pistons for G and 70 JD in reply to deere puller, 10-13-2001 20:38:01

I have a stock 70G and also a spare crank that needs some work. I am considering sending the crank to be stroked. Several people have mentioned grinding the cam, how severe does this have to be to get the required clearance for 8.75" of stroke? What other challenges are there to get this stroke to work? You say the stock bore is safe, but how about stock pistons? At what stroke do the spark plugs interfere with the piston and what is the best way to deal with that? A spacer between the block and crankcase; machine the pistons, or new pistons with a different ring and wrist pin combination? I'd like to make sure I've covered all the problems before sending the crank out. This is my first attempt at building up a motor and I'd rather not end up with a bunch of junk parts in the end if I can avoid that. Thanks...ToddF

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