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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Controversey!!!!

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ChadS

01-13-2004 22:20:29

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In our deadweight pulling club,, we basicly have no rules, run what you brung, and pull. any SAFE modification is allowed, There is a JD G that has raised the eyebrows of the rules committe. This particular JD has a double flywheel. (2 flywheels welded together) Now I am not picking on him,, it is a very very tough tractor to beat,, but it turns about 2500 rpm with this flywheel. I was thinking about if that thing ever broke off the tractor. There would be no warning to get out of the way of it. As of any flywheel and rpm,, safety is an issue, How could this tractor still be allowed to compete, without changing it?? I admit,, it has not broke yet in the 2 years it has been pulling with us,, Should there be a rpm limit? I love seeing it pull,, just don't want to see him DQ'd! Any suggestions? Chad

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k.b.

01-14-2004 18:38:40

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

CHAD: I have pulled with these guys years ago i know gale,and rob's G out GREEN CENTER IN. Yes the fly wheel has been on it since mid 80's.Do i think it's GOING TO COME OFF NO. a good idea NO! WHY? Because if some one else trys to do it and don't get it on right it will come off!! I know from experience, me and another puller were VERY VERY LUCKY TO BE HERE .I USE THIS AS THE REASON.I SAW THE 2ND ONE GO OVER MY SHOULDER OVER DAN'S HEAD spin to a stop on sled. MUST OF NOT BEEN OUR DAY, END OF DEAD WEIGHT DAY'S BUT LOVE TO GET TO ONE OF YOUR PULLS IF TIME WOULD ALLOW to watch.

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k.b

01-15-2004 13:14:52

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b., 01-14-2004 18:38:40

Chad ;Do you all have limited slip rears in your dead weight pullers?I think the big pig does so i been told.Do you all run new tires on your dead weight pulls?What size tires do you run, do you use duels?Do you like dead weight or running better?

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ChadS

01-15-2004 14:30:53

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b, 01-15-2004 13:14:52

No,, not in the dead weight tractors,, We have a MM ZAU,, has 16.9X34, pulls 4500 to 6000,, then we have a 59 JD 730 gas,it pulls in the 8500-15000# class. it has new firestone 15.5X38, duels, on 14 inch rims. I would have to admit, the dead weight is pretty exciting!! It takes driver skills to walk that sled around and keep it inbounds. If I had my choice, deadweight pulling would be #1. Down in Roann, In there is 2 pulls in one day,, running, and deadweight,, I went to both of them!! I will find out more about the Wabash pull,, turn those tires around and come pull!! Classes are 0-5500, 5501-8500-8501 to 15000. Chad

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ChadS

01-14-2004 20:22:47

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b., 01-14-2004 18:38:40

Is Daffon's still pulling their turbo 77 and 88? they used to pull them dead weight I belive.

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k.b

01-15-2004 12:44:37

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-14-2004 20:22:47

Yes dafforns are still pulling 77 on cement/but it's been a year sence the 88 pulled on cement but they had the 88 on dirt running pull last year 3 times it's undefeeted on dirt.They beat a div.5 mm gd 900 plus cid.what weight classes do you all run as a club,is it %pulles?what are the hook fees?

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ChadS

01-15-2004 14:24:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b, 01-15-2004 12:44:37

We pull percentage,, 10 bucks a driver, 3 drivers max. Contact info,,, call Mark Dyson 260-982-4201, or Mike Dyson, 260-982-4700, they can put you on the mailing list!! Chad

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k.b

01-14-2004 19:46:25

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b., 01-14-2004 18:38:40

i know bob smith yes the big pig is neet but is it realy a G SAME WELDER DID BOTH FLY WHEELS. WERE IN WALBASH IS IT WHAT WEEKIN IN MARCH AT KEN' MC?THAT FLY WHEELS HAS ALSO BEEN ON SENCE ERLY 90,S.BUT WHO WANT'S TO SAY IT'S SAFE AND BE LIABLE FOR THEM?

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ChadS

01-14-2004 20:19:41

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b , 01-14-2004 19:46:25

It is going to be either the 2nd or 3rd weekend in March at the fairgrounds in the auction ring. 22 ft lane I hear. I am sure Ken Mckillip will probably be there with the 4020. Always like pulling with him, The rule change for the tractors are going to be 18X20 drawbar specs,, must have sissy bars, and and rpm limit, % of rpm limit is yet to be determined. That is it. Fly wheels must be shielded on JD's. the whole flywheel must be covered by a steel plate. I know it sounds like they are picking on the JD,, really they are not,, just trying to cover their A$$, and have some sort of safety rules in there. I seen the Big Pig JD G pull at North Manchester this summer, he went 25 rounds in the heavyweight class, he was 8500, and still pulled the same load that a 14,500lb 190XT AC pulled. If memory serves me right,, the sled weighed 59,600,, the heaviest sled that was pulled all year. Our tractor went out at 55,500. he kept on going!! Let see some of those NATPA div 5 tractors do that!! LOL,, Hope to see ya down there,, I will get the exact date for the Wabash pull, and let you know. Make sure ol Pinky and the Fort Wayne crew know about it!! Chad

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Richard Pruitt

01-15-2004 13:05:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-14-2004 20:19:41

I have been going to Deadweight Pulls for about 4 years now and I'm still amazed at it. I was at Ft. Wayne this summer when Dafforn's and the gang was at the Fairgrounds (Allen County) pulling before the fair in Mid July. They were pulling on Concrete, something I had never seen before. I usually go to Rushville, IN on Sat. from mid-july to early Sept. They pull only on dirt. They run two sleds (light, Heavy). I would like to know the schedule for the deadweight pulls up north. I know they have a big one in warren, IN but I would like to come to some of the other ones they have. If someone would either e-mail me or post on here I would really appreicate it.

Thanks
Richard

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k.b./ ?to richard

01-15-2004 13:25:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Richard Pruitt, 01-15-2004 13:05:36

the one in warron is allways labor day on dirt.what brot you to ft.wayne in.richard ?Do you pull at all or are jest a fan?were are you from?

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ChadS

01-14-2004 18:56:51

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to k.b., 01-14-2004 18:38:40

I don't think that it would come apart either,, Not on gales tractor,, it is the other one,, We are having an indoor deadweight pull in March,, in Wabash Indiana,, Heck don't watch,, come pull!! LOL either way,, come on down!! I have directions and contact info,, email me,, or call,, My email is hpuller@hotmail.com,, 574-893-7437,, We have a few dead weight tractors we pull,, a MM ZAU,, A IH H,, and a JD 730,, hope to see ya there!! But, no,, I don't think Gales would come apart,, it is the other G, (Big pig) that is in question. Chad

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puller

01-14-2004 18:16:04

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

yes two flywheels is not good but no worse then those things that you build chad

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CHadS

01-14-2004 18:22:24

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to puller, 01-14-2004 18:16:04

You are probably right.. The 460H may be a disaster waiting to happen,, but it will not see a pulling track until it is absolutely safe to all around it.

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Green weenie

01-14-2004 17:48:12

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

You have always struck me as an intelligent human being, but you had to know the answer to this before you posted it!

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ChadS

01-14-2004 18:07:33

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Green weenie, 01-14-2004 17:48:12

Yeah,, I know how I feel about it,, I don't want to see him barred,, or DQ'd This club is establishing rules from a wide open rules to a limited rules. For one thing,, the owner is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet, and the g is a very good runner, The board had asked Dad and I ou opinion, but the guy brought up the G first.. I am all for safety.. and if the rules get changed,, he is out,,, I was looking for ways to either keep him in, or for him to just change it. Yeah you are right though,, I knew the answer,, but there is always a maybe in there,, but I guess not in this case. Are you goingto Princeton in FEB, NATPA?? I am,, Gonna see if Something Wilder can still pull against the best. Thinking of running div 3 and 4 3500-4000. Probably will get beat,, but would be fun to return, and pull NATPA. See if my mind can be changed, and second chances given. Chad

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Green weenie

01-14-2004 18:40:42

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-14-2004 18:07:33

I doubt it is a bad time of year for us but think I'll give Fruitland a shot never been there. I really like all the guys that pull NAPTA points all winter but the politics in that club is something else to deal with. Its so shakey you don't know if your getting a fair shot or not, but I'll tell you this much if you are going to pull division 4 you better get your best horse out of the barn, I guess thats why I like to pull with that bunch, no smoke and mirrors just brute horsepower. I would rather place in the top ten in NAPTA than win every brush pull I make all summer.If they could do away with their problems this would be a great thing.

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01-14-2004 16:37:38

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

You said that it is run what you bring,but know you want to change this persons tractor and how many people will you have to follow with new rules. My thought is that if the fly wheel does come apart that not much is going to stop it and then you got these other tractors that are a beefed up and are time bombs just wating to go of witch are more danger than the fly wheel.

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ChadS

01-14-2004 16:57:17

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to me, 01-14-2004 16:37:38

95% of the tractors in this club are farm tractors. The rules committe asked me what I thought about this tractor, and that is my feelings about it. Don't mind pulling against it, even thoug I am not in the same class. The thing of it is, is there is no rules, and they wish to establish them. Picture a 350# flywheel breaking off and on the ground at over 180mph shooting through the crowd. It is only as safe as a normal pull I guess, you take risks,, but not be crazy with it.

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820puller

01-14-2004 16:06:55

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

you apperently can not beat him? ps buy some life insurance an don't worry about it.your maker will decide your fate.

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ChadS

01-14-2004 16:51:22

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to 820puller, 01-14-2004 16:06:55

I am not in the same class as the G.

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Donnie

01-14-2004 08:58:25

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

Thats a lot of weight on the end of a crank. Get rid of this thing before it gets you sued.

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a puller

01-14-2004 10:41:15

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Donnie , 01-14-2004 08:58:25

I wouldn't let them run it unless you had 1/4 inch stainless as a guard. If he wants to make one that will hold up.....then let him go ahead...but other then that....no....it's very dangerous....

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Jack

01-15-2004 16:22:56

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to a puller, 01-14-2004 10:41:15

I know it wasnt a dead weight pull, but like someone said, how would you like the flywheel out in the crowd. Im not sure if you guys heard, but this past summer in Lebenon, KY a man was killed do to a hotfarm tractors flywheel busting apart. The rules didnt say he had to have a steel flywheel, so he didnt and it flew apart, scatter blanket, supposedly didnt do a bit of good. I know this is totally off the subject, but Im just saying any tractors flywheel can definately be deadly. just my 2 cents

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Phil Munson

01-14-2004 08:28:58

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

This tractor OUGHT to be DQed; at any RPM. It IS a BOMB looking for a place to detonate. Somehow it reminds me of a few young socketrientists who were going to teach me a few pointers of tractor pulling; they were trying to CHAIN wheel weights to the flyfwheel of a two banger!!

Mr Einstein was and is correct. Genius has limits but stupidity can be infininte.

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Gentle Ben

01-14-2004 08:08:50

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

I've never heard of a flywheel disintegrating at 2500 RPM- the failures in drag racing usually occur at 6000+. Doesn't seem to be too much of a hazard to me. More danger in throwing stuff out the side of the block in an engine failure, and that will occur with or without the double flywheel. IMHO.

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farmall

01-14-2004 12:49:12

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Gentle Ben, 01-14-2004 08:08:50

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.

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Bob

01-14-2004 09:14:55

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Gentle Ben, 01-14-2004 08:08:50

Ben, big difference in automotive flywheels used in drag racing and the one on a John Deere Model G. The G flywheel is a MUCH larger diameter, probably close to twice as much, and weighs in at over 100 pounds. These flywheels were designed to run somewhere around 1000 RPM, so running them at 2500 RPM is putting about 6 times the stress on them than they were designed for. Drag racing uses scattershields to contain a flywheel explosion. Depending on the Model G the flywheel may or may not be out in the open. On the G's that do have enclosed flywheels, the metal enclosing it would be about as effective as using aluminum foil in the event of a flywheel failure.

This guy should not be allowed to run this tractor anywhere near people. If he wants to splatter himself across the countryside, fine, but do it somewhere that the splatter won't hit anyone.

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big jugs

01-14-2004 18:37:38

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Bob, 01-14-2004 09:14:55

Well Put! If he wants to take chances and risks, great, but don't bring it on everyone else.

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Jeff

01-14-2004 15:46:10

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Bob, 01-14-2004 09:14:55

not only does the RPM cause it ot be unsafe but two flywheels welded together is not a real good thing. Depending on the metal when he weldedthem it could have hardened the steel right around the weld which will make it real possible fori t to break.

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Jerry B

01-14-2004 07:18:23

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

I have to agree. The rules should be changed to state ONE flywheel. If he wants to have a single flywheel made to the same weight and dimensions of the dual unit, then he would be legal.

I am surprised that someone hasn't sued over the death of a spectator at a pull here in Kentucky when a pulling tractor had a major explosion and threw debris into the crowd.

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....

01-14-2004 09:34:50

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Jerry B, 01-14-2004 07:18:23

from what I understand there will be a suit over the kentucky incident, but that's just heresay so who knows. the guy who was operating the sled already sold it and said he was done with tractor pulling.
Also in drag racing they use steel flywheels, not cast iron.

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antique puller

01-14-2004 06:41:25

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

I'm with Scott on this one, We are only one good lawsuit away from losing this great sport...We must keep the safety of competitors and spectators first. Greg.

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Scott

01-14-2004 05:27:01

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Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ChadS, 01-13-2004 22:20:29

I pull John Deere tractors but outlaw this before it kills someone.

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Dave

01-14-2004 15:47:46

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Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Scott, 01-14-2004 05:27:01

I agree with the last post, outlaw it before someone gets hurt/killed. If that thing blew apart, you would have to worry about the spectators getting trampled by all the lawyers trying to get to them also. It's just not worth the risk.

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ol George

01-14-2004 16:57:33

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Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Dave, 01-14-2004 15:47:46

This is an accident waiting to happen, there used to be a man in the Johnson City TN area that made these flywheels out of ductile iron. Seems like this tractor needs one of these. I don't know of any organization that can afford the liability of actions such as this, I empathize with not wanting to lose a tractor but losing a club and place to pull would be even worse.

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Older wiser

01-14-2004 20:02:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to ol George, 01-14-2004 16:57:33

We used to run a double fly-wheel. Now that I'm older I can only say, WHAT WAS I THINKING!

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Everyones best interest

01-14-2004 20:13:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Controversey!!!! in reply to Older wiser, 01-14-2004 20:02:49

I know Smiths & Pippengers. If something happens, the lawyer likely isn't going to ask, "are they nice guys". Do them, and us, all a favor & have them go back to a single flywheel. As was said, that one lawsuit could haunt the pullers everywhere for a long time to come.

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