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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

DIV 5 RULE CHANGES

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Oliver Puller

01-19-2004 18:44:49




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Where there be any changes in the rpms this year to decrease the rrr's on the farmalls. Come on almost a thousand rpms differance! I believe more pullers would pull in the lighter classes. Face it theres not many pullers in the classes to begine with,two or three per class. I would like to see div4 and div5 combine and put a speed limit on the new class.




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RED WHEELS

01-20-2004 18:27:25




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 Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-19-2004 18:44:49  
Leave div 5 alone. Let that be an open class using engines that came in that brand of tractor, no matter what block and no limit on cubes. If pullers are out classed all the time then step down to div 4. There needs to be some room for the antique natural aspirated tractors with modifications too. If the DEERES can't compete they will have to stay in a lower division. They do well there.



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well said

01-20-2004 18:32:43




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 Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to RED WHEELS, 01-20-2004 18:27:25  
wow! a logical idea! nice post red wheels!



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buickanddeere

01-20-2004 17:37:07




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 Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-19-2004 18:44:49  
Speed limits and no tractors under the factory shipping weight please in all classes. Then some pullers can cheat all they want and it won't help.



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caddyand ih

01-20-2004 18:26:48




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 Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to buickanddeere, 01-20-2004 17:37:07  
here's a better idea! we propose that the NATPA board buys one (yes, 1) 1954 Super M-TA with M & W pistons. They bring it to all the pulls for us (we do not pay them for their time/troubles to haul it there either), then whoever wants to pull Div 5, they go sign up and take turns pulling the Super M-TA. This will make it fair for everyone (even the whiners with no money and not wanting to work at building a good tractor) We will have it weigh 6500 lbs--you are allowed to move any weights you want to (the board or fellow pullers must move your weights where you ask them to since you also whine about how heavy the weights are), then you can put it (oops, tell someone else what gear to put it in for you, remember the whining deal), then pull down the track!! What a joy it must be as you hear the old Super M-TA pull! This is the tricky part, YOU MUST SHIFT THE T/A BUY YOURSELF!! We can't ask someone to come out and do it for you while the tractor is moving down the track. TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND PULL THE STICK WHEN READY!! YOU CAN DO IT!! The moral of the story, QUIT BEING LOSERS!!!! Like the one guy said, most of the top pullers are in their shops working on their tractors right now as you're all on here whining!! (yes, I am on here too now, but remember, someone has to do everything for you!) Maybe you should be pulling at the local threserman's steam show with some of the rules you hipocrits want! There is "an alternative pulling circuit" you know!

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buickanddeere

01-21-2004 11:45:36




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 Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to caddyand ih, 01-20-2004 18:26:48  
What topic are you writing about?



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caddyand ih

01-21-2004 16:59:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to buickanddeere, 01-21-2004 11:45:36  
your whining, mainly. anything else? The deere part explains it, though!



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buickanddeere

01-21-2004 21:51:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to caddyand ih, 01-21-2004 16:59:20  
You were easy to forget but after looking up your ISP number I remember you now. You have lots of bluster behind a keyboard but would run scared in person. You still haven't got over Deere kicking your Daddy's tractor company butt into bankruptcy and into mergers.



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good one glen

01-21-2004 22:38:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to buickanddeere, 01-21-2004 21:51:45  
tell lisa i said hi!



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buickanddeere

01-23-2004 07:36:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to good one glen, 01-21-2004 22:38:57  
Lisa said hi to your parol officer. The judge warned you the last time about contacting her after the stalking incident.



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farmall

01-20-2004 14:20:26




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 Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-19-2004 18:44:49  
Come to the meeting in april, and voice your opinion. There are a lot of pullers not liking the high RPM'S of the 460 - 560's. But as far as combining div 4-5, this would not work. Div 5 tractors are allowed deck plates, girdles and custom made heads and manifolds. Div 4 cannot run them and would not fare well against them. Anyway unless you pull these classes, what's the worry?



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Oliver puller

01-20-2004 16:06:27




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 Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to farmall, 01-20-2004 14:20:26  
Very good comment.



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Oliver Puller

01-20-2004 06:10:04




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 Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-19-2004 18:44:49  
I agree with Poppa bear and ChadS something needs to be done. I pull an oliver and plan on joing the NATPA I know I cant go to every pull also know that I can be some what competive if the rrr's where brought down. Plus I dont have alum wheels,or a 77 rear end on my 88.



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hick form hickory

01-20-2004 10:38:03




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 Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-20-2004 06:10:04  
If you don't want to pull DIV 5 don't get in there is a class for everyone, i never seen as much crying and bo hoing as this bunch if you want to pull a tractor that has not had any modifications hook on your hay rake and pull it, Everyone wants a class for their tractor. It don't work like that its not going to be fair in everyones mind. While you are on the interenet typing Adrian Cox is out in the shop getting his 460 ready to run 25mph, and I hope he does, Poor it on. HA HA HA

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Oliver puller

01-20-2004 16:33:50




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 Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to hick form hickory, 01-20-2004 10:38:03  
No I dont wont a class just for my tractor.I am just saying drop the rrr's and have more tactors in the div5 classes.I have a G 320 head on my tractor which is the same thing as a 99 head direct bolt on but cant pull in div4 but you can run a recasted head for a farmall M or JD G. Put a speed limit of 12 to 14 mph in and deck plates,homemade manifolds,diff heads and jugs should not matter. Theres not that many tractors in either of the classes. PS IAM NOT CRYING OR BOO HOOING DICK, I MEAN HICK

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farmall

01-21-2004 06:52:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver puller, 01-20-2004 16:33:50  
Go to the NATPA meeting in April and voice you opinion. That's the only way changes happen. Tell your friends also.



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Poppa Bear

01-19-2004 19:19:10




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 Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Oliver Puller, 01-19-2004 18:44:49  
Hopefully there will be enough pullers that come to the meeting this spring that think like you do! It's going to get to be to the point where no one will pull anything but a farmall due to the outrageous advantage they are being given (almost 1000 more than anything else, besides what they cheat). Orginally, this rule was supposed to make up for the lack of cubes vs. an Oliver (which it more than did!), well now with the 360 block, you can put a 100 more cubes in a 460 than any oliver, then add a 1000 rpm advantage, kinda makes it pretty obvious who wanted this, doesn't it?

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ChadS

01-19-2004 20:04:58




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 Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Poppa Bear, 01-19-2004 19:19:10  
They should have enforced the rules a few years ago instead of caving in, and keeping the big tractors out of light classes. They also should have enforced the rules about keeping original blocks in tractors. They made their bed, and now the pullers are sleeping in it. I am not picking on makes, or models here,, but as soon as they let an 88 below 4000lbs, that opened the door for the 460 and others. At one time, NATPA had rules for all divisions that certain tractors must stay above a certain weight. Then the high rpm tractors started showing up. And if the tech crew would actually grab the throttle controls and check the rpm instead of taking the drivers word that it is opened up,, you would not see those high rpm farmalls. Do you see a patern here? Breaking down of rule enforcement. Sure they are tight on div 1-3, but 4-5 are allowed to run wild. My opnion is go back to the rules of yesterday, and instead of making it open,, make rules that make sence!! A speed limit is a great idea!!! I think a 10-12mph limit is plenty fast. Safer too. Sure the crowd may not like to see it, but if they wanted to see a 20+mph tractor, let them go to the ATPA, or NPTA. A cubic inch limit is also a good idea. 450ci limit max in all classes. But there is no way to police cubic inch, A speed limit is the only way to stop them from running wild, That would level the playing field. Let's face it, there are more pullers in div 1-3 that could care less what happens in 4-5, and there are your voters!! If you want to see the fur fly,, put those div 4-5 tractors back in div 3, and make it more HP game, then you will see changes for next year, guarenteed!! Until there is someone out there to say HEY!! You are out!! This rule breaking will continue. Just my opinion about div4-5. Chad

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truth

01-20-2004 07:16:25




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 Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-19-2004 20:04:58  
your H has been outclassed since the invention of NATPA that's why you don't come. Wheeler has the only chance of an H type motor (300-350 utility) that can be competive. your old technology will not work these days, don't drag Lemmons or anyone else down cause the H's you build won't run div 5. put them in div 3 where they belong!!



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ChadS

01-20-2004 09:40:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to truth, 01-20-2004 07:16:25  
Where did I mention names? There is no question that Wheeler, and Lemmons have some hot tractors. But there is no 460's or 88's in their class!! I think it would be funny to see them run against that 460 that is domintating the 3500 5 class. I stopped pulling NATPA because of the rule enforcement. Change and rearrange. What fun is that? It is not for the pullers that get screwed over by these guys who do it honest. I am sure if I had all sorts of money that I could afford the "New" technology that they say they have. I pulled agaist Wheeler in the old days, I would say that he is the best H engined tractor that ever was!! He has experience!! The 300-350 utility is not new technology, it was just a matter of time that they built one. They did not have to spend lots of money on a row crop tractor to get fast gears, or to get light to have the balance that they do. Guess I will find out in Feb, down in Princeton what my technology will do against them. Who knows, they may get old schooled!! CHad

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Wild Horses

01-20-2004 10:31:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-20-2004 09:40:47  
It's using the old school tricks against the Big Boys that makes this sport so fun. It doesn't take $$$ to have a good tractor. I didn't say winning tractor, but you never know, it's happened before. You guys better be careful or someday, sometime someone will make you eat yur words.
If you guys want to talk about rules changes, how about 130% RPM in Div 3. That ad in Hook about "we have classes for every tractor" or whatever is bull. Our low gear tractors fall right in the middle of Div 3 & 4. Don't want to run against "any carb, etc." and hate to drop 20% RPM's also. What is the difference between Div 2 & 3 anyway? I've never pulled national, because the nearest pull is half a state away. I do plan to be at the next one in Mt. Pleasant because thats in our area, but just to say I have been to one. I already know I probably don't have a chance. But you knows this new motor and a few new tricks from Chads and maybe...

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ChadS

01-20-2004 17:37:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Wild Horses, 01-20-2004 10:31:29  
Difference betweeen 2 and 3 is no cut tires. and a 3 mph speed limit instead of 3.5 in div 3. That is about it between the 2. You said it well about old school pulling, It does not matter how much HP, just how you get it to the ground. More than likely,, my H will be div 3-4. It has no deck plate, and is stock in apperarence. And I will keep it that way. When I go pulling, I focus on track conditions, and watch simular tractors and front end raise. I am not concerned on how far the others go, just how my tractor is going to react to changing and correcting balance and driving technique. I know my tractor well, I am not saying I will win down there,,, But I will definatly be on my toes, and follow the rules, like I am supposed to. If I win,, good for me,, If I get stomped,, well, better luck next time. I will not cry, and whine,, Just have to do better. That is all I can offer myself as an answer to those who say the regular pullers can't be beat. Old School ways,, get back to basics, and pull that sled out the darn door!!!! Just my 2 cents. ChadS

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Wild Horses

01-21-2004 14:56:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-20-2004 17:37:18  
You and I would get along great. That's exactly how I feel.
Until this year I had practically no money in this M. Just used little tricks here and there. Did alright 2nd or 3th sometimes. So I decided to build the motor. After a few mistakes, it'll be going again this summer. It'll still only be 307 cu in against some 409 cu in. M's and big Olivers etc. But I'll have fun anyway win or lose.



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WILDMAN

01-20-2004 10:11:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-20-2004 09:40:47  
CHAD WHO IS PUTTING ON THE PRINCETON PULL IN FEB. I MIGHT GO IF IT IS USAP. I KNOW MY STUFF IS NOT COMPETATIVE IN NATPA.



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RAY R

01-21-2004 05:44:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to WILDMAN, 01-20-2004 10:11:00  
USAP HAS A PULL FEB 21 AT PRINCETON,IN AND THE NATPA HAS ONE FEB. 28-29 SAME BUILDING AT FAIRGROUNDS.



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HOW TO CHECK CUBES

01-20-2004 07:11:01




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 Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-19-2004 20:04:58  
When we raced with SOD (Sprints on Dirt) They had a 360 cube rule. Anyine who had to be checked got "pumped." It was a threaded adapter which screwed into the spark plug hole. from the adaptor, a hose which ran to a long clear tube, which had a ball inside of it, and markings on the outside of the tube, to read. The motor was turned over, and the compression blew the ball up to a predetermined place in the tube. Which ever mark the ball made it up to, multiply by the number of cylinders, and you had Cube inches...not hard to make, or just buy one from SOD..AC

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Jeff

01-19-2004 20:36:00




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 Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to ChadS, 01-19-2004 20:04:58  
hey chad I got a question ( a serious one .. imagine that) I went to the NATPA pull in Murray Ky. last year and I rememebr one of the rules about the hitch tht it couldn't be connected anywhere above the center of the rear axle. I still have pictures of alot of 88's I took for reference to build mine that shows alot of the adjusters connected up to the original brackets or other locations above the axle center. None of them were disqualified that i know of.

I have also heard on here that that rule is being enforced alot harder this year, this true? I guess what I am getting at is that what good are rules if they are not strictly enforced? I know when we had our local pull of course the rules were more relaxed than NATPA but unlike the pull the weekend before we had a guy watching the scales for every tractor and checking most of the hitches that looked suspicious. There was some minor grumbling but no arguing and griping like I had seen the weekend before.

As for speed limits I am all for them. Hehe since I only pull the local pulls it is either farm Stock or Open. Doesn't really bother me alot when an Open tractor pulls Farm stock cause we all have to use 1 st gear. That makes for a real good equalizer.

I have to say that NATPA must be doing something better as there is not near as muc posting on here about it as there was last year.

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A Puller

01-20-2004 04:20:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: DIV 5 RULE CHANGES in reply to Jeff, 01-19-2004 20:36:00  
I don"t know that NAPTA is doing any better. I for one have not pulled with them in 2 years and do not plan to. With the way there pull are run and a $25 Hook Fee .
But I don't get on here and Bi&&^% About them all time . They can change all the rules they want.



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