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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Div 5 NATPA

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wondering

04-07-2004 14:04:25




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Was wondering how the div.5 rules turned out?




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Josh H.

04-07-2004 18:33:39




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 Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to wondering, 04-07-2004 14:04:25  
Bear and Company lost their rpms on the 460/560's! It was an overwhelming vote by the membership! Can the "BAB" three (Bill, Adrian, Bill) even turn them DOWN to 2575? Guess they'll have to!



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Josh Hannah

04-07-2004 19:28:15




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 Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Josh H., 04-07-2004 18:33:39  
Josh H. Please use your full name or your middle name. This posting looks like it was sent by me, and I think they should have got to keep the higher rpm. Thanks



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You're Nuts!

04-07-2004 20:24:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Josh Hannah, 04-07-2004 19:28:15  
Why should they have got to keep them?? It's not been right for 3 years and the membership corrected it! Besides, it didn't affect you much...



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Cody

04-07-2004 18:48:45




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 Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Josh H., 04-07-2004 18:33:39  
Man that is going to hurt!!!



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ChadS

04-07-2004 21:59:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Cody, 04-07-2004 18:48:45  
It was fun while it lasted. oliver guys oughta be doing cartwheels now! To me it makes sense, keeps it in the ballpark. Sure would be funny if a speed limit was involed later down the line too. for every positve action, there is always a negative reaction. The rule will probably get changed back half way through the year anyways. I would say, that it is not the end of the issue, Ol Bear's got more money, than Carters got liver pills! Just my opinion. Chad

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J.H.

04-08-2004 03:36:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to ChadS, 04-07-2004 21:59:43  
This isn't USAP. Keep your rules to yourself. Everyone waited all year to see your Super H. Does it ever go to a pull where there is people at?



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ChadS

04-10-2004 07:35:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to J.H., 04-08-2004 03:36:51  
Yeah it does! Kicks A$$, and takes names later. Shoot, give me the USAP anytime of the week over the kindygarten crap the rule changers, and rule breakers the NATPA give all of us. Keep rules to myself? HA HA ! I could come up with a set of rules in my sleep that the world would agree with, IN MY SLEEP! So don't lecture me about my opinion of what things should be, we already seen what they should not be. This will be a returning year for Oliver tractors. You see, we all had the same whinning that the oliver guys have with the 460s. when the 88's came int o the 3500 class, and made it a money game, we complained, WHO DID NOT???? but yet, our crys went unheard! NOW, the big 88's were getting stomped by a IH 460. Why? because the rule breakers made it that way. You get the rules straight, then you will have a good pull. Sure, the 460 do not need the rpm that high. But mark my words my friend, you have not heard the last of the high rpm 460 IH in the NATPA! You are right, this ain't the USAP. USAP got it right!! The first time!!!!! !!! CHad

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Wild Horses

04-08-2004 08:41:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to J.H., 04-08-2004 03:36:51  
You know I wish USAP had pulls on this side of the Mississippi. NATPA should look at all their rules. They claim to have a class for any tractor. Well look over here, boys. We don't fit in any of your classes. Too big a tires and RPM for Div 3 and too stock for Div 4. You're leaving out one of the other big central Iowa associations.
You know I'm no big threat to anyone, but these guys keep saying "step up". Well if you let me in, I'll step up and I'll bring several tractors with me. I may get beat back down, but maybe it'll prove a point. NATPA ain't the only way.

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Shut it up

04-08-2004 07:33:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to J.H., 04-08-2004 03:36:51  
I wouldn't bash. I haven't seen you in Texas. Everybody knows everythings bigger in Texas.



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Red

04-08-2004 09:44:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Shut it up, 04-08-2004 07:33:12  
Watch it now!!! I dont know af many tractors here in Texas that can pull against any good Div 5 ollies or 460's. Dont get our humble state involved in these issues. We are still new at this and growing and learning. only thing I can complain about is letting those tractors Pull the light weight classes in Div 5. Kinda tuff for an H to compete with a 88 or a 460. I dont pull with NATPA so I am not going to bad mouth anybody till I meet them and there tractor.

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farmall

04-08-2004 12:03:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Red, 04-08-2004 09:44:38  
Red, div 5 is unprotected, and if you can make the weight pull it. If you want protected classes pull div 4. The membership must like the rules this way because nothing was said at the meeting when voting on div 5. Farmall



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Red

04-08-2004 13:05:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to farmall, 04-08-2004 12:03:50  
Oh Yes, I know, and I do understand it. Kinda like building a light superstock but under a few constraints. (My father pulled a Pro Stock in the 70' till the mid 90's so we know about p[ushing the limits and that is basically what Div 5 is) Here in Texas we only go up to Div 4, and that is kinda run what ya brung. We have an H and it is a div 3 tractor and is going to be a div 4 tractor by the end of the year. We would really like to push the little motor with a girtle and a deck plate to see how much you can really get out of it but cant in Div 4. If it breaks then it breaks, my rush comes from trying to get from point A to point B. Would never be able to compete against a 460 or 88 but I guess it would still turn some heads trying to. Maybe a 460 will be the next project if we kill the H. Any way, Good luck to NATPA, maybe one day we will make it up to pull with ya'll.

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BigART

04-08-2004 13:25:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATPA in reply to Red, 04-08-2004 13:05:35  
As a farm stock puller from the 70's, it amazes me that people support rpm limits, yet don't see any advantages to mph classes. Today, in the Indiana area, a lot of heavy farm stock classes, 12,000 and up, run a 6 mph rule; don't matter what cubes, what rpm, what gear, duals or singles, easily enforced and rather completitive pulling among colors. Antiques and their rules vary more than professional or state associations, and in comparison to other major sports, NASCAR regulates speeds by cubes, and restrictor plates, not rpms, NHRA does the same, and the AHRA was even more so. The popularity of drag racing participation wouldn't be what it is without bracket racing, and mph classes are the same as bracket racing, only brackets limit seconds, not mph. How simple could it be to run a pull with 4 or so speed classes, allow cut tires in the higher speeds, mandate safety rules and let'm rip---is that too simple----or just too difficult for the high dollar pullers to dominate???

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Al

04-08-2004 13:43:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 NATP in reply to BigART, 04-08-2004 13:25:51  
Yes, thanks for all your ideas! Every pulling association now will be better and change due to your wise assumptions. Stay in the steel wheel classes and leave everyone else alone please!



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BigART

04-09-2004 07:05:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 in reply to Al, 04-08-2004 13:43:51  
In other words, you don't think, a 12 15 or 20 mph antique classes would work on rubber tires? Just what kind of mph does your tractor run, I'd drive a long day to see a class of antiques that'd have to slow down to get in those classes!I would readily support an open class, but seems every association has their own intrepretation of "open" also, guess you'll just have to keep having rules meeting and checking rpm's, while your 'new rules' let the hi dollar boys support the machine shops, building new trans gears to maintain their ground speed with their lower rpm limits! Not words of wisdom, just watch, and see those with the desire and money, spend it, despite the rule changes. Most antique pullers I know, are smoker pullers at heart, either stock or hot farm, but the rules and enforcements were never the same at any pull, or the same twice at the same pull---. I realize I'm backward, but I'd also take a day's drive to see a steel wheel tractor in the 12mph class at a usap pull---find one for me John!! I appreciate the machinery and know how behind the antiques, but with tractors out there in the 20k and up range, I'd think it would be nice to be able to hook it in mult associations, without mechanical changes. The most obvious problem is, by the nature of the beast, you guys are attempting to, and in many ways successful, in regulating engines from 2 cyl to 6 cyl to be competitive versus one another, but they obviously weren't when they were stock class tractors, and they won't be with rpm limits based on individual engines either. If you go as far as to legislate out one "dominate" model, you legislate in the next closest tractor!

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lj

04-09-2004 09:02:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Di in reply to BigART, 04-09-2004 07:05:44  
This was all about one model having unfair rpm advantages, don't know what you are rambling on about, but get over it....work some OT and go get you a big HP classic or hot farm, and BE HAPPY!!!



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supermpuller4

04-08-2004 19:44:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 in reply to Al, 04-08-2004 13:43:51  
Instead of trying to build a tractor to beat the 460's, just detune them and try to catch up, most of the guys griping didn't even pull in div 5. If you can't beat them, ban them, what a bunch of wimps.



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Cody

04-08-2004 15:14:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Div 5 in reply to Al, 04-08-2004 13:43:51  
I guess this is the way the dream ends? What happened to the decals on bear's tractor?



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Jon Aller

04-08-2004 20:12:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Di in reply to Cody, 04-08-2004 15:14:52  
I just don't get it. Granted I am not an NATPA member and will never have a DIV 5 tractor. If you want to run 660 rpms then PULL a 660! I know that they didn't make as many as 460s and 560s but they are out there..



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Al

04-08-2004 16:28:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Di in reply to Cody, 04-08-2004 15:14:52  
I assume he'll now call "it" (the tractor) whatever gets him the most rpms? Maybe a Ford 9N with a V8 conversion has 3000++ rpms? I don't know.



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Cody

04-08-2004 21:40:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Al, 04-08-2004 16:28:58  
He is probably having 660 decals made for it!! Might be trying to keep the dream alive?



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Al

04-09-2004 04:49:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Cody, 04-08-2004 21:40:02  
READ the way the new rule is written, with his motor, whatever you call his conglomeration, the dream ends at 2575. Going to be kinda hard to "cheat" now; 2575 sounds a whole lot different than the 4000, I mean 3400 they were turning! LOL



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BigART

04-09-2004 14:06:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to Al, 04-09-2004 04:49:35  
At least if your bashing me, you're leaving the 460s alone----I've read the rule, 130% of factory rated or nebraska test rpm, did the membership go back in time and change the test results---Al's implying they ran 4000 rpm, not 3400; just my point, enforcement of rpm's is difficult, and with pulls hook numbers in the hundreds like Princeton Indiana, true enforcement would work the techs silly. I'm a die hard smoker fan,but I was not bashing the association,and I appreciate a 150 to 200 hp antique gaser, but at that hp and 5000 lbs, ground speed wins pulls, not chung and tug!! Pullers by nature are 'not happy', between the antique pullers moaning on yesterdays tractors and the smokers groaning on fonda's board, I've found my heaven on these pages, "Soap Box Tractor Pulling". Happy Hookin', BigART

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BgFART

04-09-2004 16:15:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to BigART, 04-09-2004 14:06:06  
The 4000 rpms came from anyone that can hear! It's obvious they WERE running more than 3400. You diesel farm stockers love to whine too. Every pulling class does/will. Don't tell NATPA how to do things unless you pull it!! Obviously by the intelligence you have displayed, you don't!! Do you have any farm stockers pulling IH V-8 Heads cut down to fit their 6 cylinder binders?



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BigART

04-09-2004 18:29:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to BgFART, 04-09-2004 16:15:51  
No, 400 series head flow more than the 550 v-8's, what'd work best, is to cut the 400 series heads, and put on the 550's for improved air flow, but the hi dollar boys all run billets anyway! Joe Williams, NHRA E/Altered Class Champion of Louisville KY, with an in-line six ran v-8 heads in the early 70's, so, unless your tractor has been running since then, your not quite on the edge of technology yet! I made the statement that mph limits are bashed on this board, and this is the response I get from the NATPA pullers, who obviously don't understand what they are saying themselves: The rpm rules are either (1) not enforced or (2) not able to be enforced; don't expect anyone to put their money into building a serious competition vehicle under those circumstances. Why rejoice over the de-rpming of the 460's, if they were allowed to turn 4000 with a 3400 rpm limit, why won't they do it with a 2700 rpm limit? The pullers on here seem to be one's with the problems with 'in house' enforcement. BigART

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BgFart

04-10-2004 04:49:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re in reply to BigART, 04-09-2004 18:29:26  
They are enforced. Tired of playing your retarded game.



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