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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

ChadS, Mopower here.

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Mopower

08-30-2004 05:31:52




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Chad, it looks like you responded to my M-M smallblock posting, but when I click on it nothing comes up and it says there is an error. Always good to hear from you, but for some reason the posting didn"t work. What did you have to say?




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ChadS

08-30-2004 10:32:36




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-30-2004 05:31:52  
It was a wise crack.. But on that subject, I think I would have to look twice if there was a modified MM R-Z pulling over 100 hp, Would be a pulling machine!! I dont know much on the engines as far as inside to know how much can be done, From others conversations, there is just as many parts to interchange for these engines as the U and on up... Never looked into anything for my Z. Would be a good sight to see some prarie gold with the red, orange, and green. Who has a big cubed, div 3-4 MM R-Z that pulls light classes? That would say oh yes, I have one, and it is bad!!! Search is on!! ChadS

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Mopower

08-30-2004 10:38:14




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-30-2004 10:32:36  
It is the newer replacement for the R & Z engines that I am talking about. They bolt right in. There are some being built right now, but I don"t hear too much about them. The Z engine has limits with air flow, but the over head valve type took care of that. Although "skinny minnie" was a good machine with the old type motor. I saw it at Columbus, OH a few years back.



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ChadS

08-30-2004 10:47:02




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-30-2004 10:38:14  
I see. Is the intake and head design the same? On the top of the engines? Chad



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Mopower

08-30-2004 10:59:32




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-30-2004 10:47:02  
No, ports and manifolds are on the side and some pretty good breathing manifolds are availiable. If you get a chance Chad, take a look at a 335, 445, or Jet Star. Even a U302, as they have the good manifolds. The ports are spaced the same and the crankcase is similar, but they are peppier and much more torque. With your experience, you should take a whack at a yellow powerhouse puller! I am going to give it a shot on a couple levels if I can afford to.

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ChadS

08-30-2004 12:18:10




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-30-2004 10:59:32  
Would this type of upgrade be welcome into div 2 and 3 classes? I would say, yeah,,, maybe,, depends on the class or where you are.. Chad



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Mopower

08-30-2004 12:47:00




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-30-2004 12:18:10  
Hard to say. It fits, but who knows. A 335 started in 1956 so it is fair game...it had the overhead valve engine. Just bought one. But the old JT had a conversion kit made at the factory to convert to M-M motor from a Waukesha allowing a Z engine but also fitting a U302 engine. A Z nevr used it, but it could be a M-M replacement engine. Touchy, but depends. 335 or Jet Star is your best bet. Jet star started in 1959, so I can"t pull mine. It will use a smaller 335 tranny. Gotta love tractors that fit like legos.

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ChadS

08-31-2004 08:05:32




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-30-2004 12:47:00  
Might be interesting!! How many Hp was the jet star? Cubic inch?? I will tell you, I am not much on MM parts interchangability, now the red ones,,, different story,, LOL!! That 460H I got, was alot of fun to build,, just have to do something with it. Looks like I may go looking around for some Small MM to have a look at. How lite can the ZAU I got go down to? 3200, 3000??? 3500 for sure,,,, Would feel like a big dog on that MM, against all those IH, and AC"s!!!! Like I said before,, not for sure what I wanna do with the ZAU,, sure is an awful nice running 206!! But hey,,,, never know what might happen when I get bored.... What is the potential for what engine I have??? ChadS

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Mopower

08-31-2004 08:23:53




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-31-2004 08:05:32  
Jet Star was 206 cubes and 48 h.p. at 1750 rpm. 3-5/8x5 motor like the ZA. A ZA (ZT even better) can get to 3500 with some help. A Jet was 3540 with no options (wide front built on all of them easily interchangeable with narrow for a 335 and such). Your ZA could be 60 h.p. without much effort, but they have air flow and govenor issues. A 165/206 OHV series engine can use U302 blocks that are 3.75" and bore em out. U302 diesel blocks were 3.875 stock, but rare. Without stroking, you could have 250 cubes. I know a stock U302 motor (220) could be tuned to 75 h.p. with some carb work and such. I think a big stroker 220 in a 335, R, or Z could be 110 h.p. with ChadS at the wheel. I have head compression charts and interchangeability lists if you need them. Go yellow, you know you want to. Oh yeah, LP gas manifolds off the U302 will bolt up a U or G carb. Don"t get me going.

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ChadS

08-31-2004 08:52:38




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-31-2004 08:23:53  
Change is good. I aint prejudice on color,, Go yellow,,, naaa, Go PRARIE GOLD!!! LOL. I could get 70+hp out of the 206 if they allowed alcohol!! Just takes a great carb to flow the fuel. aint much room there for a little bigger carb,,, it has a small Zenith on it, like the 77 ollies have,,, Also, If I did this,,, I want to keep the stock engine in it,, And that manifold that is on it now,,, it is like a tunnel ram,, excellent torque builder right there. I love the sleeper look in a puller,, stock in apperance,, but wait till it hooks up,, LOL. I dont know,, 43 hp out of this now,, is a whole lot better power than the H or super H in stock, "Tuned up" form. Weight and balance is good on the Z,, the fronts are naturally light, and the rears are heavy,,, heavier thanthe H if you weighed the rear wheels separately compared to the two. Course, comparing apples to oranges there too,,,, LOL. to pull 3500 competively,, the light front end is good,,, it would have to be able to get down to 3200, or less, to be able to move the weight around to balance it out. Potential for a MM??? You betcha,,, ChadS

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Mopower

08-31-2004 09:07:02




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-31-2004 08:52:38  
Takes a special cam to compensate for the small ports and flow. 43 h.p. is very good Chad. They were 32-35 from the factory I believe. Heck model U ran 45 horse or so.



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ChadS

08-31-2004 15:57:05




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to Mopower, 08-31-2004 09:07:02  
I tuned it on the dyno, I rejetted the carb, 94 pump gas, dialed the valve lash in with the compression guage, set the timing on it, set the carb, on the dyno, 43 hp, yes, it was 35 before. I tune them pretty good. Still have yet to touch the distributor on it, not even reset the points, or check the mechanical advance, (if it has one) and have not looked done anything to the governor. It is a 206, and has 155 psi of compression, was 135 before the lash reset. Belive what you want, this works my freind. Some, just dyno them set the timing, set the carb, thats it, OH NO my freind, you come to this shop to dyno your tractor, nothing is not looked at in these areas, it is a practice I enjoy to do, tune em up!!! ChadS

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MMark

08-31-2004 16:57:27




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 08-31-2004 15:57:05  
My '37 ZTU makes 38 hp, it still has the RE engine in it. (3 5/8 x 4.5 - 185.8 ci) I have fun kicking early JD A's, Oliver 70's, Farmall 20's and H's, WC Allis's. We split our classes up into old and classic. ( splits at '39) This class is suppose to be stock, LOL. Chad, I have set my timming with a compression gauge. Was 115-120 before 125-130 after. Started out at 30 hp ended with 38 hp. I must have the same head as your ZA, the compression difference calculates about right after you take away my displacement difference. I have just purchased a '49 ZA and have it torn down ready for a rebuild. I have several ideas and have talked to a few people that have built small block MM's. Would like to talk to either you. I think I have found a trick for a top manifold Z that will make well over 60 without stroking.

Mark Damewood

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ChadS

09-01-2004 12:20:45




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to MMark, 08-31-2004 16:57:27  
Those manifolds on this style of engine, are like the 6cyl dodge intakes, Very long, and a few turns in it to reach the chamber. I could understand why a larger carb (cfm) would not have a good benefit on this intake, Comparing stock to stock now,,, Course, I have never had a vacuum guage on this one to see if that is accurate, I say this because you could tell if an engine needs a larger carb cfm wise,, if the vacuum reading is very high, and could stand to be dropped to a lower, more efficent level. Who knows,, could have a very high amoutn of manifold vacuum the way it is. Which is not a bad thing at all! I would think,, that a manifold like this needs as much draw through the intake and carb as the engine can possibly give it. a bit of restriction in the right place is not an entire bad theory in tractor engines, especially when they are low compressed, and lower rpms. ChadS

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ChadS

09-01-2004 09:11:53




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to MMark, 08-31-2004 16:57:27  
Question,,,, is there a difference in the wrist pin sizes on these engines? did they make 2 piston styles, that where one would have a large wrist pin,, and a piston that had a small wrist pin? ChadS



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MMark

09-01-2004 10:10:02




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 Re: ChadS, Mopower here. in reply to ChadS, 09-01-2004 09:11:53  
.9995 for all. The OHV diesels may be bigger.



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