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This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS.

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Big Time

01-02-2002 21:23:40




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once a year, dyno contestants tractors. Then weigh at each meet. actual pull weight divided by actual hp x2. result x actual sled travel. do some figures tell me what ya think.
example 5500 lb tractor dynos at 102 hp. this gives you an entry number of 26.96. times the total length of pull. say 70 ft, gives you a score of 1887. largest number wins class. 4500 lb 50 hp pulls 73 ft. entry number of 45.o gives you a score of 3285. larger engine hp the greater the divisor. therefore a same 4500 lb tractor with 38 hp entry number is 59.21 manages to also pull 73 ft. scoring 4322.36, winning his class.
6500 lb unit at 150 hp is a 21.6 entry, pulls 118 ft for a score of 2556.
this obviously favors smaller engines, and may work only for stock classes. all you need do is dyno them once a year, and seal the governor with marker glue, and then weigh them every pull. Dont laugh till you think it over.

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burns

01-03-2002 16:59:20




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Inarticulate folks cannot seem to deliver their viewpoint without Flaming, 01-03-2002 15:43:06  
Just for clarification purposes (of course based our your email address it may fall on deaf ears). In our club, we have a gentlemen who has a strong running Ford. Other than the 15.5x38 tires, it is a very competitive stock tractor. I also have a friend who pulls a JD B that is darn close to stock. The guy who pulls the B is always shooting for the ford. Both tractors end up within a few feet of each other. Based on your formula, this would automatically give the decision to the B because of the lower rated hp. Hardly fair to any tractor. That is the biggest disadvantage to your idea. I hope my comment didn't start this peeing match.

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joecool

01-03-2002 19:04:07




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 Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to burns, 01-03-2002 16:59:20  
I just couldn't help it, I have been around tractor pulling for over 25 years from when my dad helped with a super stock on ntpa tour. I now enjoy pulling "stock" antique tractors for FUN. The people we pull with do it for FUN, not money, payback, points or anything, just FUN. It enjoys me and others to see a old tractor putt in low gear and pull a sled, just like racing, big time money is going to ruin antique tractor pulling if everyone keeps bithching and not get along.

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Deere My....

01-03-2002 14:35:56




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
Well, I think that the system proposed is unique and would help to even the scales, so to speak, but I believe that the fans would be lost (as others have mentioned) trying to figure out exactly what's going on. I've pulled old tractors for the last 10 years and have come to understand that fan involvement = sponsorship opportunities, which helps to pay the freight. If the fans can 'get' what's happening and it happens FAST, good things can happen. I've personally run sponsored by a local Deere dealership in the "c" class for several years, absorbing some of the operating costs on a week to week basis - Not that I'm spending much to begin with (tractor or entry costs)

As for the 'feud' between Stroker & Gary, Stroker is probably right. If Gary personally doesn't fit the description, he better change his clothes, because given the number of wise-ass posts he left, he sure looks the 'type' to me. If not, well then I owe him an apology. It just seems that there are too many of that 'type' involved these days to keep it fun, which, let's face it, given the piddly money involved is the only reason in the first place. I've seen too many good people with good equipment (read good vs. expensive) walk away due to un-savory experiences with guys who were born 'knowing-it-all' and pompous, both at the same time.

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Gary

01-03-2002 16:43:08




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Deere My...., 01-03-2002 14:35:56  
Alot of my comments should be taken tongue in cheek,which it seems some folks can't do,not my problem.My tractors are about as low $$ as they come.I win some and lose alot thats the way it works.What I have done and will continue to do is
support the pulls,join the clubs and help any way
I can at the pulls I go to.Big Time by his own admission in earlier posts does none of these things.How does he or anyone else who never raises
a finger or forks out a buck at a pull expect the
folks putting on the pull[making rules]to really
give any consideration to what he wants?If I go to
a pull at a place I've never helped at, I pull by
their rules and get what I paid for, whatever comes my way.No sense in my crying the blues because they didn't do things like I want them to.
Why should they?

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Deere My...

01-03-2002 17:10:59




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 Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Gary, 01-03-2002 16:43:08  
I stand corrected & apologies if necessary - I do agree that if a guy goes to a 'foreign' pull and does not have any input or provide any assistance, the only thing to do is either roll with their flow or load 'er up. I'll never forget taking my Deere "GM" to a money show at a neighboring county's fair only to feel completely screwed out of 1st place - I didn't like it, that's for sure, but I'd never pulled with those guys and they were a particular shade of red that Deere never offered, so I figured that I'd still had fun showing the crowd what tractor was going to handle the 6500 lb. class and left it at that. When I began to 'pitch-in' late that night to hitch the heavy-weights & such, I couldn't have been more surprised to find two envelopes on my windshield - One containing a crisp $100 bill (1st prize) via the 'declared' winner and one containing a $100 check from one of the men running the pull, along with an explanation that they had decided to immediately review the rule that disqualified my run. I had said nothing to them, although my dissapointment was evident on the track when I was unhooked. I spoke with both men and donated the $200 back to the fire company organizing the pull as a benefit. Sometimes it pays to get involved, as they asked me to join their rules committee for the coming season. Just shows what can be done when someone is good enough to get involved for 'unselfish' reasons.

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Gary

01-04-2002 03:51:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Deere My..., 01-03-2002 17:10:59  
I never said that a club or group shouldn't adminster rules fair and equally to all pullers,they should.What I said was that you shouldn't expect to have any influence in making
the rules unless you contribute to the group.A real big difference.Still say if you don't contribute to the group putting on the pull you shouldn't expect any influence in the rule making.
Also Big Time sweeping statements in earlier posts about the future
of pulling was doomed if he didn't show up was pretty ridiclous at best.The biggest problem at pulls I go to is finding guys that will help with
the pull not finding folks to show up to pull.

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IHpuller

01-03-2002 14:09:44




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
i am man enough to leave my email so why dont you send all your bullshit to me! i just cannot stand you flaming city guys getting all defensive when a guy tells the truth! and besides whatta ya gunna send stroker? are you gunna be tough and cuss him out? i got new for you buddy, my line of blue words for you can peel paint.



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Gary

01-03-2002 14:28:55




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to IHpuller, 01-03-2002 14:09:44  
What makes you think I'm a city guy?Also I'd like to compliment you on your cool candid well thought out response.



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Todd

01-03-2002 13:55:42




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
There is no system that will really work because the integrity of some men leave a lot to be desired. I have won my share, but I have been beaten a lot more. I just approach it as having fun pulling MY tractor, win or lose, and associating with friends, or other pullers. Thats what it's about in my opinion. You can cut down cheating but somehow, someway, some people will try to pull the wool over our eyes.

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This discussion has become colorful once again

01-03-2002 13:45:25




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  



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Stroker

01-03-2002 13:24:22




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
I'm not sure that the crowd could figure out what is going on and yes, the crowd is important. Pulling is entertainment for both spectators and pullers alike. 'Gary' sounds like the typical piss-hard at local pulls that can't win without beating his chest and feeling overly-important. Probably feels that everytime someone else wins that they're 'cheating', as if the only way to beat a cheater is to out-cheat them at the game. Yes, a guy needs to take his beating and make a better puller, but everyone can really do without the sarcasm and one-upsmanship that typically personifies these types of people.

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John

01-03-2002 19:19:20




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Stroker, 01-03-2002 13:24:22  
well, here is how some people are, just like gary appears. I pulled a 1942 A and kicked butt in the 4500(2nd), 5500(1st), and 6500(1st), and the next day, we got 1st(5000), 1st(6000) and 4th(7000). and that was a little old A. Well, people couldn't take the beating the first day, so in between, we got sand dumped in the gas and water in the gas for wining, then, We have an old set of 16.9-38 that the goodyear dealer wouldn't boot. So...my dad got some carrage bolts and bolted the boot in the SIDE of the tire where the crack was. well, the second night, there were 3 or 4 people that were saying we were cheating for haveing "studded tires," jim refering to the boot!! U believe it!!??! so...I guess my point is complainers don't deserve to be able to be in with the rules and stuff, and "bend" the rules so it's fair for them.

just my $.02 worth. so u think that was right of those people? if u want, email me, JohnDeere@yesibelieve.com, or post it, I'll be watching!!

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Gary

01-03-2002 20:50:39




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 Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to John, 01-03-2002 19:19:20  
I don't know why you would think I'd be anything
like those folks.First off anyone who messes with
another pullers tractor is a jerk and should be
shown the gate period.I would have done anything
I could to help you get on the track the second day to pull against you again.And the deal about
the bolts in the tire would have gotton no complaint from me but probably you would have heard
from "that ain't stock" crowd.

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John

01-04-2002 15:42:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Gary, 01-03-2002 20:50:39  
ya, that's pretty much what happened, and sorry for "prejudging" you. after I posted this, i felt bad, and was gonna put someting else down today.

anyways, I'm glad you would have helped the people who had troubles, and we think we know who did it.
John



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Gary

01-03-2002 13:32:29




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Stroker, 01-03-2002 13:24:22  
Since you're not man enough to leave your email,
I'll be man enough not to bore others with what I think of you,give me an email if you can take the heat if not I'll just throw your BS out the barn window with the rest of its kind.



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Val

01-03-2002 13:40:01




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 Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Gary, 01-03-2002 13:32:29  
Stroker, you were right on.



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IHpuller

01-03-2002 10:36:10




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
in my opinion this is a good system for the guys with unmodified tractors. it is just his opinion. he is not bitching whining or crying. i think some of you guys shuld just see what a guy is trying to say before you go off saying he shuld quit his crying. i have pulled h's m's 1066's jd a's jd b's and i have pulled in super farm stock with a 1066 with a duramax diesel in it. yes this system shuldnt be used at large pulls because yes people wouldnt understand it but where guys are pulling regualur m's vs. modified m's puttting out 100 hp i think it would be the fairest way. think about it. this is just MY OPINION. derek

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Val

01-03-2002 13:37:37




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to IHpuller, 01-03-2002 10:36:10  
Well said. In my area, we've already lost the interest of the crowd. They are getting tired of Joe Blow coming in with his modified M or G or Z and taking home the trophy every time. They came to watch the M they sold to the neighbor kid or the G they used to pull 4-14's with 20 years ago with the hope that they'll see her win. Their only hope is that Joe Blow forgets to flip one of his fancy switches or the cotter pin falls out of the governor rod.

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IHpuller

01-03-2002 13:57:49




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 Re: Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Val, 01-03-2002 13:37:37  
i no exactly what your talking about. i like the diesels but they just get old. same thing everytime. id rather see a guy with a regualy old tractor win than some guy with a 50,000 dollar fancyd up tractor win. i will admit though seeing hans boxler pull with his new tractor is something to see. just wish there was still room for the little guys. derek



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Slo

01-03-2002 09:27:21




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
Have seen some percentage pulls, but they are hard for the guy in the stands to follow. Hard for the pullers to follow too. And a miscalculation or writing error can be the difference between winning and losing.

Also, too many ways to get around your hp rule if you only dyno once a year. Then how do you handle tractors that don't have a pto? A lot of those old tractors had pto's as an option, and not every tractor left the factory with a pto shaft.

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Kelvin

01-03-2002 07:51:25




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
Does this mean everyone gets together, calculates how far they 'should' go down the track, give out trophies and go home? Shoot! don't even have to bring the tractor.



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Gary

01-03-2002 06:17:20




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
Do you work for a gov't agency?If not you you should sign up.I can't imagine anyone that pulls
wanting to go to a mess like the one you suggest.
If you are that desperate to get a trophy post your address and I'll send you one I've won.



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Willie

01-03-2002 06:07:24




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
People in the stands don't understand percentage pulling and I'm afraid that you would lose their interest rather fast. All they want is to see who pulls the furthest, not a 3500lb tractor that went 100 ft. beating a 7500lb tractor that went a full 300ft.



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burns

01-03-2002 05:43:12




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 Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to Big Time, 01-02-2002 21:23:40  
You would still need to monitor the tractors pulling. Because if I dyno with my tractor 10% less than factory rpm and then I adjust it to 10% over, it certainly will change the hp output. You system certainly would level the playing field between different hp tractors. You would happen to pull a Deere?

Stock 20 hp JD B versus a stock 43 hp Ford 900.



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Gary

01-03-2002 11:22:09




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to burns, 01-03-2002 05:43:12  
By the way I got,not 1 but 2 stockings full of coal,extra bad this year!But the jokes on the big
fat one dressed in red that did it because I was waiting outside with the 12 gauge and now have 2
reindeer hanging in the meathouse!! How'd your Holiday go?



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Gary

01-03-2002 06:38:32




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 Re: Re: This scoring method WILL work and eliminate BS. in reply to burns, 01-03-2002 05:43:12  
Actually you could take a 50 Cockshutt put in a 4 cylinder 30 engine [31HP] install 24"rear tires
so I can still have power to pull with extremely
low 1st,weight up to 10,000,would be real hard to
beat.Lesson "Big Time" needs to learn how to make
a tractor pull or learn how to take a beating and quit crying about it.



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