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How much does it really cost for HP?

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burns

01-08-2002 12:04:58

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I am not trying to start another brand war. Big Time made reference to how folks with tractors with a lot of $$$$ invested has effected the antique pulling world. I was curious to know approximately much you have invested in the working part of the tractor. Now I realize that condition of the tractor, attention to tolerance/specification, paid labor and sweat labor can effect the grand total. I will agree that there are brands that it takes less $$$ to make more HP (brand war). I personally have around $3000 in the "engine" of my JD G. This would include a lot of head work, camshaft, machinist cost, bearings, pistons work and gaskets.

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01-11-2002 07:50:09

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

A standard 4 1/8 overhaul kit in an Allis WC or WD gives you very competitive tractor for DIV II or DIV III for about as little as you can get invested. for about another $1500 in the motor you can pull up to 5500 pounds competitively.

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Gpuller

01-09-2002 10:44:16

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

Burns,
Just wondering about your G. How much hp does it make on dyno? Is it stock stroke or cam? What about carb and intake manifold? Do you run the late style head? Thank you for any info you might want to help me with.

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burns

01-09-2002 10:59:52

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Gpuller, 01-09-2002 10:44:16

I really don't have any secrets to hide about the tractor because it is what happens on the track that counts. My G averages around 63 hp on the dyno. .090 M&W style pistons(altered), stock stroke, factory flat head(stock valves, pinned, polished/ported to match a Jerry's manifold), Dengler camshaft, MSD/Pertronix ignition, Crum 3" exhaust pipe and Crum 2 1/2" intake, stock big nut carb, mix of 115 octane leaded gas and pump gas. I am still scratching my head on the weight balance but we are having fun doing so. Drop me an email if you have any other questions. The link shows the intake/exhaust system Steve Crum made. Quality work and a great guy. His speciality is Deere but he can make anything.

Link

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JDGnut

01-09-2002 12:16:03

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Re: Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-09-2002 10:59:52

Nice intake pipe U got there.. Are U running a filter inside the Intake pipe.. some of the guys here are running a small K&N inside the intake pipe.. but they are using a little bigger pipe than the 4in.. Looks good.. JDGnut

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Burns

01-10-2002 09:42:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to JDGnut, 01-09-2002 12:16:03

I am running a cone style filter similar to the KNN-RU-2510 filter from Summit above the hood line. My fits over the 3 1/2" intake pipe. Inside there is a fitting that funnels the air into the intake pipe. Are you running your air through the oil bath system? I can't see that side of the tractor in the picture I have on my website.

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JDGnut

01-10-2002 13:41:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Burns, 01-10-2002 09:42:30

I took the factory elbow and cut it off.. Turned it over so it points down.. It has a filter on it like yours, but its not a K&N. Did U ever get that head fixed... I talked to a friend about it.. and he had a G head fixed like U were talking.. it ran great.. It wasn't a puller.. Said U couldn't tell it had been fixed.. Later.. JDGnut

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burns

01-10-2002 16:56:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to JDGnut, 01-10-2002 13:41:06

Yes, I have the head back but I am not so sure about predicting how it will hold up. The crack was drilled but was just shy of the end of the crack. When the head was heated the crack opened up a fair amount (went from a hair line to a noticable crack). The spray weld is a rather slick process. He then covered the whole thing with an epoxy coating. Of course this on the water side. But I plan on peaning the crack in the exhaust passage. We will see. I am in the process of working my cyclone head over just in case.

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Deere Puller

01-09-2002 10:11:00

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

Gary is right on the money - Having a tractor that runs good and doesn't pull can usually be explained by a physics lesson. It's fairly rare to power a tractor out in a class that it belongs in, therefore the rest is in setup / operator ability. I have a '46 Deere "GM" that is making roughly 50 hp. on a cheap overhaul ($1200 total), but the best investment I ever made was the $120 for an applied mechanical physics text at college. Turned a mid-pack tractor into a top-fiver (over 25 1st place in Div III) for only the cost of new weight brackets. Know guys with same tractor, 4 times the money (and 1.5x power) in the engine that I beat regularly in the 5500 / 6500 / 7500 class. Over my head in 8500, but as I mentioned, you have to be in the class where you belong.

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ken

01-09-2002 20:11:54

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Deere Puller, 01-09-2002 10:11:00

I was not going to say any thing BUT its not how hi the front wheels are off the ground that is A show and not pullin

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Gary

01-09-2002 04:17:35

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

I have a AC WC with about $500 invested,a Cockshutt 50 with about $1200 total,An AC B $600,
A Coop E4 about $1500 total,and a Cockshutt 570 diesel with about $1500 in it.Definitely a bunch of "high dollar" pullers!You don't need to spend that much to win at antique pulling.Probably a good physics book would be a real good investment
for alot of guys.

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Great list!

01-09-2002 14:03:31

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Gary, 01-09-2002 04:17:35

That's an economical and fun way to pull Gary! I like to watch tractors like that pull and like you said, there's skill and hard work involved without big bucks.

On the other hand, there are times I like watching those div. 4 and 5 tractors go at it. I know of an Oliver 88 that has a $50,000 engine. Of course his closest competitor built his own 88 engine for $12,000. They too have lots of fun, but it's out of reach for most of us!

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LOL

01-09-2002 09:31:33

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Gary, 01-09-2002 04:17:35

Gotta love that sense of humor regarding a physics book. My biggest expense was the flat head that I had to buy outright plus I needed two intake valves (which are like hens teeth). Had I not used a flat head and stainless steel intake/exhaust parts. I could of cut my bill in half. Trouble is where do you stop?

Burns

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01-08-2002 20:37:23

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

In my opinion you can't beat a Moline for cheap HP.Buy a cheap old U bolt on some 800 parts 130-140 hp before you do anything fancy.Some shopping around maybe spend 4-5000 including cost of the tractor.

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G Taylor

01-08-2002 19:57:25

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

Sometimes the extra power doesn't cost anything extra,to a point anyways. A rebuild on the 70 gas would cost the same if LP pistons, LP manifold were purchased instead of gas units. A freshened up cam & lifters cost the same if ground stock or "extra". The oilbath aircleaner to dry conversion is under $100 if done at home. Oversize valves/seats are pretty reasonable & some time with the die grinder smoothing rough edges out of the ports is cheap.

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Slo

01-08-2002 18:22:10

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

Until it gets painted, I won't have a grand in the whole outfit, including some ignition and governor work. Looks like it, too... :-)

Tractor does alright for what it is. Places more often than the high dollar tractors would like it to. Pulls div 3 or brush pulls. Around $12.50 per horse.

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Ron

01-08-2002 16:58:05

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

I guess you guys are not pulling in any "County pulls"...! My cousin had a JD 70- 6 1/8" bore, 2800 RPM, camed, huge tires....Pulled good.... THEN he pulled his JD"B"...found it will pull almost as far with the original tires off the 70..!! Won more money with the "B" than he has the 70, and I SAW the 70 out pull a 1460 with twin turbo's.!!! We can have fun no matter what kind of pull it is..as long as it ain't for blood....

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Todd

01-08-2002 13:35:20

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

I had a gentleman tell me one day at a pull that the last few feet of a winning pull cost a thousand dollars a foot. Thats funny, but is he wrong? Hmmmm.

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SteveV

01-08-2002 18:00:30

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Todd, 01-08-2002 13:35:20

Hmmmm. If I spin out at 175 feet and the next guy spins out at 179....was it because he had more HP?

Steve

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Puller

01-08-2002 13:04:31

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Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 12:04:58

That figures out to about $60.00 per HP. How close am I? I hope you saved a little back for the Crank so you can get some real power out of that JD.

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burns

01-08-2002 13:38:57

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Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to Puller, 01-08-2002 13:04:31

Stock crank

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Me again

01-08-2002 13:42:38

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Re: Re: Re: How much does it really cost for HP? in reply to burns, 01-08-2002 13:38:57

Actually it is closer to $50. I average around 63hp on the dyno at 540.

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