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MM

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Shawn

04-05-2001 19:58:25




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Hello everybody,
I just saw a UTU with the g motor in it sitting in a old shed, the guy said they farmed with it for many years like that. It was even an old long block, but it did have a split manifold, it ran on LPG. We turned it over by hand it hadnt run in 15 years and was still loose. The guy wants to pull it in some farm stock classes when he gets it all fired up and looking good, what i was wondering with everybody complaing how MM made all these parts that were interchangeable and people farmed this way, how can you not call it a fram stock tractor. It just kinda seems to me that it would be. I mean people farmed with M's that had truck motors in them, isnt that farm stock, or does that only count when the ol 8-16's plow is hooked up?
Shawn

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troy

04-06-2001 19:32:10




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 Re: MM in reply to Shawn, 04-05-2001 19:58:25  
I just found a 40 cockshutt with a 390 merc engine in it that the farmers grandfather and father farmed with from the early 60's until the late 70's. Just tell me were I can pull it in the farm stock classes and I'll get to work on it.



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jdeere70

04-06-2001 01:08:31




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 Re: MM in reply to Shawn, 04-05-2001 19:58:25  
I`d call that farm stock. There is no difference between that and Farmall M`s with 450 motors or a John Deere G with a TSC or M & W Power Block. How about John Deere 4010 or 4020`s with Turbos or 466 block? Or IH tractors in the field with similar setups? I can`t see any difference. Drop the big hook and pull`em! Scott

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FOLKEN

04-06-2001 09:18:20




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 Re: Re: MM in reply to jdeere70, 04-06-2001 01:08:31  
You can do anything you want as long as you don't beat the good old boys that run the show.



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AMEN

04-06-2001 22:05:56




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 Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to FOLKEN, 04-06-2001 09:18:20  



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Slo

04-06-2001 12:58:50




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 Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to FOLKEN, 04-06-2001 09:18:20  
Gee Ken, who could you possibly be talking about?????



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Jon Aller

04-06-2001 19:13:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Slo, 04-06-2001 12:58:50  
I assume that you guys are kidding, right?

What the rules concerning replacement blocks are trying to address, is the distance from the centerline of the crankshaft to the top of the block(deck height). That is why JDs can run power blocks, IH Ms can run 400/450 blocks, WCs can run D17 blocks, and YES even MM Us can run M5 blocks. In each of those examples the only thing that changes in the engine dimensions is the bore size.

A MM G block is taller than a MM U block, thus increasing the deck height. That gives the puller an advantage when he/she increases the stroke of the crankshaft.

Respectfully.

Jon Aller

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No Spacers???

04-07-2001 06:20:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Jon Aller, 04-06-2001 19:13:32  
Jon: Your input is good, BUT: Why can the John Deeres run a spacer plate under their bolcks? No other tractor can.

The MM can get the same amount of stroke with the short blocks as the tall blocks. The ONLY reason the MM pullers want to run the tall blocks is because that is the motor that was put in to farm with. When they change to the short blocks with the big crank, they will get about 15 more horsepower than the G motor.

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G Taylor how does a short block make more power?

04-07-2001 21:31:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to No Spacers???, 04-07-2001 06:20:59  
Are the two blocks are otherwise identical except for the deck height? A taller deck will allow longer rods, reduce friction & keep the piston nearer TDC for the 1st few degrees of crankshaft rotation.All means more power.



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Your a goofball

04-08-2001 03:24:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to G Taylor how does a short block make more power?, 04-07-2001 21:31:44  
You don`t use the G blocks you use M-5 Blocks a G crank and stroker pistons from welters. This gives you a a stock looking tracto



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G Taylor goofball name caller is a coward

04-09-2001 11:52:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Your a goofball, 04-08-2001 03:24:00  
Noticed the name caller is a sniveling coward & won't post his address.Pretty well shows the type of individual they/it are.



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G Taylor

04-08-2001 21:26:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Your a goofball, 04-08-2001 03:24:00  
1st of all the insult was uncalled for.The MM is not my area of expertice. I was questioning how in the "spacer" post above an otherwise identical but shorter block than the G block made 15 more HP. Now that overbores are mentioned in the block swap then it makes more sense.A taller factory height block would still improve the rod angle & power. There wouldn't be any MM's looking externally factory origional but built from mix & match parts pulling in the stock class is there? Say what ever happened to MM anyways. Survival of the fittest applies to tractor companies too.

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Keith

04-10-2001 20:47:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to G Taylor , 04-08-2001 21:26:19  
OK, same old arguement different day.

What was used years ago should be allowed to be legal in a pull today?

I saw a styled G John Deere 25 years ago in a field plowing. I was with my dad and do remember the guys set up to this day. He had a lpg "torpedo" tank strapped to the frame with a valve by the throttle. When the plow started pull tough, he cracked the valve to the lpg tank open feeding lpg into the carb as the air cleaner was unhooked. Maybe not the safest thing around, but was keeping up with 4020's. Still legal to run in a pull?

I think the enginuity to put these pullers together today is fascinating. And for every rule put in place there will always be someone challenging it and another finding a way around it. Can't run a MM G block, put a Welters kit in or go balls out with an 800. No matter what they do, prairie gold will always rule.

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Keith

04-10-2001 20:44:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to G Taylor , 04-08-2001 21:26:19  
OK, same old arguement different day.

What was used years ago should be allowed to be legal in a pull today?

I saw a styled G John Deere 25 years ago in a field plowing. I was with my dad and do remember the guys set up to this day. He had a lpg "torpedo" tank strapped to the frame with a valve by the throttle. When the plow started pull tough, he cracked the valve to the lpg tank open feeding lpg into the carb as the air cleaner was unhooked. Maybe not the safest thing around, but was keeping up with 4020's. Still legal to run in a pull?

I think the enginuity to put these pullers together today is fascinating. And for every rule put in place there will always be someone challenging it and another finding a way around it. Can't run a MM G block, put a Welters kit in or go balls out with an 800. No matter what they do, prairie gold will always rule.

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You said I was stupid, just did not type it

04-09-2001 06:02:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to G Taylor , 04-08-2001 21:26:19  
Just to make a note John Deere is not the JD it was years ago. They are not in that good of shape and have not been for several years. When White stopped making the different tractor lines Oliver had the upper hand and anything that was MM had to go. I know for a fact that JD wanted the dry gas engine line this included the HD 800. But the bank of Chicago would not lend them the money. That is when Buxemkamper got some investors and bought the line. They kept making motors in Russellville Arkansas up into the mid 80`s. He is now in his mid 80`s and has a MM engine service in Nashville. Bucks Engine Service, he is one great guy. John Deere never could make a dry gas motor. Still today they have no motors to do what an 800 could.

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T yler

04-10-2001 09:54:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to You said I was stupid, just did not type it, 04-09-2001 06:02:55  
The deeres were antique when they were new



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G Taylor antique

04-11-2001 23:13:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to T yler, 04-10-2001 09:54:32  
For something so out dated they had the modern features & fuel economy that is rarely beaten today. Still in uise today around the world 40+ years later, in high demand & still supported by the factory. Can't build enough Harleys for fill the demand either & they are "outdated".



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G Taylor dry gas engine?

04-09-2001 11:54:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to You said I was stupid, just did not type it, 04-09-2001 06:02:55  
Whay is this dry gas 800 engine? Sounds interesting. LP,natural gas or what?



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burns

04-09-2001 11:13:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to You said I was stupid, just did not type it, 04-09-2001 06:02:55  
It seems that most modern companies have their faults including Deere and Co. I would agree that todays Deere is not that of yesterday, however there isn't a company in existance that has not changed in some postive or negative manner. As far as the HD 800, it is a impressive setup and an even more impressive when modified. Does this guy in Nashville have family that can carry on with his knowledge? It seems that we are losing a lot of the orginial "old timers" and their knowledge. Just a thought?

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Jeff

04-09-2001 20:09:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to burns, 04-09-2001 11:13:37  
I also agree the 800 is some motor. I think stock they are 250 hp at 1800 rpm and will run just about forever.



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Jon Aller

04-07-2001 06:54:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to No Spacers???, 04-07-2001 06:20:59  
What rules let a JD run a spacer plate, and not allow it for any other brand?

Jon



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??

04-07-2001 10:11:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Jon Aller, 04-07-2001 06:54:50  
Have you been to a NATPA pull??? They have NEVER kicked out a John Deere for using a spacer plate. The JDs run them in Div 3 and 4 without any problems. No other tractors can run them.

Wake up people!! The NATPA only has rules for those they don't want to win.



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Jon Aller

04-07-2001 12:19:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to ??, 04-07-2001 10:11:46  
I have no intention of attending an NATPA event, for several personal reasons.

But, I have read the NATPA rules. If you are telling me that John Deeres are allowed to run spacer plates in Div III and IV, I have trouble believing it. How thick are the plates you are talking about? Between the block and the crankcase or the block and the head or both? Who are the drivers/owners? I am so tired of hearing this crap about all of this blatently illegal stuff. Where are the protests from the competeing pullers????!!!!

Mr or Mrs ??, or can I just call you ?? do you pull in Div III or IV? What pulls have you attended to see these spacer plates? How many tractors? Name the owners... WHY HAVEN'T YOU PROTESTED THEM!!!!

Jon Aller

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Call Me ??

04-07-2001 14:40:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Jon Aller, 04-07-2001 12:19:17  
If you haven't been to a NATPA pull, your are missing all the fun. Yes there are JDs running spacer plate under the block. Most are about 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick. They are pulling in Div 3 and 4.
There is SOOOO much cheating going on it the NATPA, I don't worry about the JD's. They aren't winning so who cares.



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dh

04-07-2001 17:18:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to Call Me ??, 04-07-2001 14:40:42  

the molines are the only tractors that had spacers available and sometimes required by the factory. the early M5 repower kits for us and ubs had to have them because the 4.625 piston is about .250 taller than the 4.250 piston origanlly in the tractor even the first M&W kits were this way. M&W actually started making the shorter pistons first and moline followed suit. I should know we probally installed close to 100 of these kits at our dealership . The mm service book also tells you how much you can shim the blocks to adjust the compression for altitude or machining the block. the recommended maximum was three shims and four gaskets. the thickest shim was .090 and the thickest gasket was .060.
and this is all factory recommended and authorized but still not legal for natpa how do you explain that? Itpa in illinois has recognized this for years and extends this to all the brands i dont think its too much to ask to be able to use factory parts and specifications when everyone else gets to do whatever they want.I have neverseen a service bulletin from allis saying the D17 was a replacement for a wc or from int saying a 450 was a replacement for an m im sure if there is one someone will let me know

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billy joe

04-07-2001 19:47:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to dh, 04-07-2001 17:18:16  
shut up



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dh

04-09-2001 15:56:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to billy joe, 04-07-2001 19:47:51  

whats the matter dont you like to hear the truth. from someone who was actually there and knows what is correct instead of some johny come lately who heard it second hand and thinks its the law. oh and you can bite me if you dont like this one



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Billy is a NATPA member

04-07-2001 20:30:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MM in reply to billy joe, 04-07-2001 19:47:51  
Billy are you related do Dr. Burns?



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