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1206 and .450 roosamaster

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farmerjim

04-16-2005 19:29:22

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I just got done putting a .450 roosa and .025 injectors on my 1206. I have to move the pump gear 8 teeth off the original timing to match the timing marks on the new pump. Is that common with a .450? I was told it was because of the head on the pump.

My problem is that the tractor will not start. Not a lot of smoke while turning it over either. cracked all the lines and they have fuel to them. Looking for any suggestions. I am lost right now.

Thanks

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farmerjim

04-18-2005 19:50:53

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Thanks in reply to farmerjim, 04-16-2005 19:29:22

Just wanted to say thanks to you guys for the help. But as of right now I am at a stand still once again. I took the injectors out of the tractor tonight and tested them. 4 out of the six "let go" at 3000 psi, the other two were a different story. About 300 to 400 psi they started to leak out the nozzle and when they did finally let go the whole way, it was a stream of fuel and not atomized at all.

So I am back to sqaure one. I am sure two bad injectors could really make a difference on how much white smoke the tractor is putting out.

Just wanted to say thanks and I am sure I will be asking plenty of more questions before I get this problem figured out.

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Redman

04-19-2005 10:29:13

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Re: Thanks in reply to farmerjim, 04-18-2005 19:50:53

midwest diesel injection services,ft dodge IA.
talk to lee,he will be cheaper than hyper and you will get it when he says you will.
i'm not at the shop so i don't have his number,as i recall the last set i had him rework cost around $40 a piece.goog luck.

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Redman

04-17-2005 09:09:54

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-16-2005 19:29:22

it has been a long time since i have ran a set-up like that,but here it goes.
did you do anything with the governor?
how many CCs of fuel is this good for?
if they opened the governor and it is dumping anything over say 325 CCs it will take about a half of can of either to get it to run on its own.
with the p-pump on mine when i had it i started to learn tricks to make it run,spin the engine without fuel then give it fuel and a shot of ether at the same time.
once it starts to fire keep giving it small shots of ether and increase rpm to around 2000 rpm and it should run on its own.
like i said,i may be way off and i don't know your set-up so i have nothing to go off of.
mine ran around 4500 rpm with a 3lm turbo and a p-pump set at around 40 degrees BTDC,never did start good but it drove on the trailer 99% of the time.

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farmerjim

04-17-2005 18:53:32

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to Redman, 04-17-2005 09:09:54

I have a simple setup. The pump is supposed to be set around 240-260cc's of fuel. 5X.025 injectors with .093 lines. It has a 3lm on it and is set to run around 3000 rpms. It is "farm stock" so I cant go crazy.

We finally got it to run today after some messing around. It turned over twice and with no ether fired right up. The wrong holes on the head where firing fuel at the wrong time. When the timing marks lined up #4 was firing instead of #1. One hole off.

The problem now is the miss and white smoke. I think I have a bad injector. It shouldnt blow that much white smoke right? Would timing do that much?

Thanks for your help. I am new to this.

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Redman

04-18-2005 19:47:29

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-17-2005 18:53:32

i should also add that you can check the timing to see if it is atleast close.
take #1 injector line off on the top and turn the engine over with a bar,when the fuel comes out check the flywheel marks.
it really should need a sniff of ether to start with that amount of fuel,if timing is retarded too far they will start,but they will also burn down.
never hurts to double check,way cheaper than an overhaul.

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farmerjim

04-18-2005 20:01:11

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to Redman, 04-18-2005 19:47:29

Thanks Redman..

That what we had to do finally on Sunday to get it into somewhat time. We took number 1 injection line off and watched in the head until the fuel came out and the hole lined up in the head. The hole came just a bit before the timing marks lined up on the pump. It is set right at stock as of right now. About 8 degree before top dead center.

But like I posted above I am screwed right now because of my injector problem.

But Thanks alot for the help so far. It sure is hard getting all this to click together.

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Redman

04-18-2005 19:37:09

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-17-2005 18:53:32

excess fuel will smoke white and in most cases cause a slight miss.
hook a heavy chain onto the biggest tractor you have there and put a load on it,it should clean up the miss by just warming it up good with a little pull.
the white smoke will probably always be there except for right after you unhook from the skid.
don't know what you set the timing at,but i would only go a few over stock.

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1256 puller

04-17-2005 04:26:17

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-16-2005 19:29:22

We just ran into the same situation on our 1256.We installed a .450,.093lines,and tips from a 429(which will be changed to 4x.025).The tractor is hard to start,needs a fair amount of ether to get her going , but ours rolls alot of smoke when cranking.After getting it fired up I messed with injection timing to find a happy spot.Something I found to be a little strange was that it wants to start and run the best with timing set at 5 degrees after T.D.C (stock pump ran good at 6 degrees before T.D.C.)Verified true T.D.C at flywheel marks by using a dial indicator on #1 piston and the factory marks are right on the money.The only thing I can think of is our pump still has the automatic advance maybe this is causing the weird timing, might go to a zero housing.Call me at 724-253-2445 and we can compare notes.Advice from anyone else also appreciated.

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856puller

04-17-2005 10:49:38

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to 1256 puller, 04-17-2005 04:26:17

we have a 450 that is capable of 430cc .093 lines .035 tips that thing does not start very well either. a little snort of start juice is usually the norm. we have run anywhere from stock to 20 btdc never had a problem setting timing. maybe there are different versions of the 450. we have had problems if it stalls on the track it didnt like to start back up. found out if we cranked it with the fuel shut off first it helped. i cant see why you would need to move your gears thet mutch.

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farmerjim

04-17-2005 18:45:56

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to 856puller, 04-17-2005 10:49:38

Well I spent the day again here working on it. We finally got it to run by moving the injector lines. Not sure if when you put those pumps together you can rotate the head but when the timing marks on the pump and the flywheel lined up, the hole on the head one down from where #1 is supposed to be lined up. So we just moved every line down one.

It started on the second crank after we did that, no start juice. But the tractor had a miss to it and was just rolling white smoke. If you cracked it, it would puff some black but mostly grey.

When we had the lines of the pump, and were turning the tractor over, one of the lines shot fuel back out when the cylinder came up on compression. Do I have a bad injector? That is what the guy helping me thinks- miss and spray back. The injectors are 5 spray hole X .025 from hypermax and were supposed to be "just freshened".

The pump is supposed to be set for about 240-260cc
's of fuel. At least that is what I was told. The tractor is "farm stock" so I didnt go that crazy.

Thanks for any help.

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IHboy1456

04-17-2005 21:24:24

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-17-2005 18:45:56

It sounds like u dont know what u doing, right? well lets see..... Pump gear could be out of time? Cam gear could be out of time? But u sould not have to move the lines around on the pump to make it work. If u think a 450 is going to start right up with out some good starting juice u are wrong my friend. A 450 sounds like crap tell u start to open it up and work with it a lil bit it just dose not happen over night. If u need some one to hold your hand through all this there is alot of guys out there that will help u for a cost$$$$$$ good luck

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farmerjim

04-18-2005 14:39:56

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to IHboy1456, 04-17-2005 21:24:24

I dont know why people like you have to come on here throwing stupid remarks out when you dont even have a clue what you are talking about. By the way you type I can tell you are just some want-a-be puller that has no idea what is going on either. Funny how the tractor fired right up with no ether yesterday, but I guess you cant read.

I dont need help from guys like you. You dont know anymore than I do.

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756Puller

04-17-2005 20:14:30

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to farmerjim, 04-17-2005 18:45:56

We have been down the same road where you are right now. Let me tell you from experience, a 450 runs "sloppy" at idle to at least half throttle! Its the sacrifice for more fuel. Remember, that pump was designed for an 800 ci engine, not a 361. And you have big injectors, they will slop fuel until she gets wound up some. Every tractor we ran with a settup like yours smoked like a b#itch at idle, its when you finally get it working is when things come together. And all of ours sounded like they miss at idle, a good chunk might be you don't have your timing right, but even when its on, they still run sloppy. Before you get to worried about injectors, try dialing your tractor in a lil more!

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Brian in Ne

04-18-2005 18:30:53

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to 756Puller, 04-17-2005 20:14:30

As 756puller has stated alot of the problem has to do with the fuel quantity. The amount of fuel that you have stated that the pump is putting out is at rated RPM. What the pump puts out at cranking speed is a whole nother issue. Depending on the condition of the head it could be kicking out 50% more than full load! Theres nothing you can do about it, it's just the way the pump works. The engine is going to smoke white because the combustion temp is going to stay low due to the amount of fuel at cranking. It will stay that way until the boost from the turbo comes on
and thats when it turns black. If I remember correctly the gray smoke has to do with engine timing, but unfortunatly I don't know which way to tell you to go with the timing. With a puller I believe it's alot of trial and error.

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Redman

04-18-2005 19:44:23

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Re: 1206 and .450 roosamaster in reply to Brian in Ne, 04-18-2005 18:30:53

the grey smoke comes mainly from the lack of boost.
timing could be off a tad,i will go to the top and give him a trick to see if it is close.

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