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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

ChadS! Few carb questions for ya!

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FarmerSid

06-23-2005 04:33:41




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Hey Chads! My '51 H with C169 with 3 5/8 overbore kit is running pretty good. Getting it broken in. Last time we chatted you suggested that I drill out my venturi to 15/16 - 1". I drilled it out to 63/64 on my lathe and smoothed it out as best I could to the shape of factory 25 venturi. The carb I have is a newer one without the plug on the bottom that holds the metering stem in place and has the idle mixture screw on the carb flange.

At first, I drilled the jet out 3 sizes bigger with number drills and drilled the bottom two holes on the metering stem with the same drill bit. She smoked like a burning tire with every adjustment I made with the jet. So I put another metering stem the same size in that I had but had not been drilled and the smoking went away. All this was with a 25 venturi. Now I have a 63/64 venturi in it and drilled out the jet two sizes bigger for a total of 5 sizes bigger than stock and put the drilled out metering stem back in which was drilled out 3 sizes larger. The H fires up no problem and seems to run fine at idle and all the way up to full throttle. I tried turning out the main jet to try and get it to smoke just a tad but I can turn the screw all the way out and can't get it to smoke. Tells me that it could use more fuel. Don't know what to do. Kinda reluctant to drill out the jet anymore as I am 5 sizes bigger already and don't want to ruin the bowl. Dyno is away for a bit so I can't see what these changes would make under load. Don't want her to fall flat on her face at the first pull. Any suggestions?

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ChadS

06-23-2005 06:32:11




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to FarmerSid, 06-23-2005 04:33:41  
The bigger venturi, will require more fuel VS how you set it up for the #25. Let the engine break in a few more hours before you go much further on jetting. Dont forget to retorque everything, head bolts, manifold studs, etc etc that can cause a leak of somesort. Your about right n the jetting, 5 sizes seems real close, if you did anything, open up the metering stem holes 1 more size. make sure the float is working correctly, has enough fuel in the bowl, If you cant make it smoke with no load, you will be still too lean when you do put a load on it. The best power will come from veturi #'s 27-30 for the H-350. run it somemore, and break it in. How much compression? Ride it around with the brakes on, with the jet backed all the way out, if it does not smoke still, metering stem, you compression could actually get better as it breaks in, the bigger venturi will drop manifold vacuum pressure and let the fuel mix, but if its still not smoking, the pressure is still too high, and can stand a bit more on the jet. I Tuned a Super H over the weekend, 169 engine, 160 psi, took the carb, and metering stem out darn near 8 sizes then it got smoke, and did not run erratic. Those jets are small, so 5 sizes may still yet to be big enough. Chad

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redcub

06-24-2005 16:12:31




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to ChadS, 06-23-2005 06:32:11  
Chad, do the #27 veturis fit in the H carb (1951 model)? Did all the H Farmalls in 1951 come with the smallest veturi? How could this help my situation running stock bore and stroke with 152lb. compression? I drilled my H carb out 4 number sizes already.



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FB

06-27-2005 20:36:16




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to redcub, 06-24-2005 16:12:31  
i got some 16.9's for my M



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ChadS

06-24-2005 16:20:59




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to redcub, 06-24-2005 16:12:31  
No, they are for the shebler carbs, not the small H style Zenith carb. You could bore the H venturi out a tad, but they do get thin, its easier to convert it to the big shebler carb if rules allow. Then, on the 152 engine, you run the #23, which would about equal the same diameter of a bored out H venturi. The H venturi was a one size fits all part in the zenith carbs, Your small carb will be good for stock rpm and low end lugging, the bigger carb will help run a higher rpm, and maintain the rpm, and give you a bit wider selection of carb venturi's. Chad

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superih

06-23-2005 08:04:25




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to ChadS, 06-23-2005 06:32:11  
Chad

I believe the numbers on the Venturi's are the metric measurement of the diameter of the Venturi. A number 25 would be really close to an inch.

What is your target for vacuum? Do you measure it at full throttle no load?



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ChadS

06-23-2005 08:52:07




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to superih, 06-23-2005 08:04:25  
Im thinking they are measured in 32s. Id say it is relitive to engine compression as to the amount of vacuum pressure. Venturi size does affect it slightly, smaller venturis will make a higher reading, too big, and it will be too free flow, and be erratic. To the best of my knowledge the numbers of venturi for which model, is like this,,,
#23- SH-350
#25-M
#27- SM-MTA
#28- SMTA-400
#29- 400-450-and some 460's
#30- 6 cyl, 263ci
#33- 6 cyl-291-and some 301's
#35- is the biggest one Ive found, and that's in the 301 6 cyl out of the 715 combine. In most H's that I tune, that has the shebler carb, a 28 works the best for the C-164-175 at 10% over rpm with compression ranging from 150-175 psi. They usually have to be rejetted, but it picks up some hp along the way. They usually sweat, and frost over at the carb flange, till the engine warms up and intake warms up too, and goes away. If it still sweats, or frosts, it is taking to hard of a breath, and pressure is high. Plugs go bad, may seem rich upon acceleration. On the M's warmed over M's like the 29-35, they vary so much from tractor to tractor, its hard telling, just have to know what the engine is doing, as far as compression pressure, manifold, cubic inch, One M can have 155 psi of compression and use a 29 and run and have torque, and another M can have 180 psi, and need the 35. Just depends on what parts are on it. See, the M with 180+psi could have a different cam, or head, manifold that makes that engine unique and create its own patterns to look for when tuning. At 175 psi inthe H-450 engines, better be at least 90 octane. As far as to know what you need to do, go bigger, or smaller on venturi sizes, cant just sit and listen to it run sometimes,,, more information is needed, compression pressure is the main thing, heads, cams, carbs and fuel modifications affect the engine from there on out. Throw in the newly rebuilt engine getting broke in too fast, or not enough, and your gonna chase ghosts till its never ever right, too much is done too fast, and something else that is out of whack creates a whole new problem that did not exist before. Cover the bases, all of them, best tools are a spark plug socket, compression guage, when the plugs even out in color, and so does the compression, then its time to tune, bolt torques on the pullers that have less than 2 -5 hours that have not been rechecked. Few more hours of break in time, keep an eye on plugs and compression, valve lash, and engine temp. ChadS

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FarmerSid

06-24-2005 04:38:42




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 Re: ChadS! Few carb questions for ya! in reply to ChadS, 06-23-2005 08:52:07  
Thanks for the info ChadS. Much appreciated. Engine is a C169 with overbore kit. Stock 300U cam, H crank, 300-350 carb, H distributor with recurve springs installed, rebuilt 300U head planed 100 thou. Compression is 170 on all 4 holes. Lash set to 19 thou cold. Head and manifold retorqued twice now to IH specs. Currently getting 41 HP on the dyno.

Haven't done anything with the govenor spring yet. Still using the one that was in it when I brought the engine home. Is your spring much shorter for the H-350 than the one for the M-450?

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