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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Compression verses HP

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Jackofalltrades

07-08-2005 19:11:00




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Hi! Just wondering people talking about building compression to over 200 psi. If you dyno a tractor say 60hp with 160psi compression. Take same motor just cut head or change to another, raise compression to say 220psi or so How much more horsepower would it be? Or would there be no change? Anybody know? Just curious. Thanks




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ChadS

07-09-2005 02:16:52




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to Jackofalltrades, 07-08-2005 19:11:00  
Depends on the model and make. Yeah, on the most part you will increase HP, you are also increasing efficency. Lets say you have a Super M Farmall,,, you have 60 HP at 160 psi, if the engine has never been tuned on a dyno, you could have up to 65,, going up to 200 psi would be like bolting on a LP head, Have seen 264 Super M's with Lp head, make 73. a 281 even more. I dont know what your working with, so its hard to determine increases. you would definatly have to step up the octane in the fuel at 200+psi, and rejet the carb, maybe even a slighty bigger carb. thats a pretty big jump in compression, if you tune it right, you could see some good results. ChadS

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REDEYE

07-09-2005 11:31:07




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to ChadS, 07-09-2005 02:16:52  
What do you mean by bigger carb? larger venturi metering stem and the like, or "bigger carb" as in off a 301?



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ChadS

07-09-2005 16:27:06




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to REDEYE, 07-09-2005 11:31:07  
When you increase the amount of air flow, by increasing compression, the old venturi size can become restricted to allow the flow to work more efficently. Its mainly air speed that is changed upon compression boosts, when you speed up the air, and the venturi is too small, it can slow the flow down enough not to get the full potential HP gain. More compression has to be fed more fuel, or the mixture becomes lean, some cases, when you rejet the carb, you can put way too much fuel into it, creating erratic conditions, a bigger venturi drop the vacuum pressure, by allowing more air in the manifold, which will mix more fuel into the air. If a M has 200+psi of compression, the stock throttle body can feed it, but it takes the big #35 venturi out of the 301's to help balance the manifold pressure out and mix the air fuel charge better. Chad

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Lamont - Confused

07-10-2005 14:14:44




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to ChadS, 07-09-2005 16:27:06  
I'm not following your explantation. Please help. Would more compression always mean you need more fuel? For instance, say you simply shave the head or put in flat-top or dome pistons. That would increase the compression but would not increase the amount of air drawn into the cylinder. Why would that require more fuel? Would that make the mixture lean? Seems like it would be richer. Confused on this one.

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ChadS

07-10-2005 14:32:54




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to Lamont - Confused, 07-10-2005 14:14:44  
If you already have a big carb, it gets lean from not enough fuel, if it has a small venturi it gets rich cause the manifold pressure is increased and sped up, pulling more fuel, than air. I should have drank another cup of coffee before I typed that out,,,, Chad



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ChadS

07-10-2005 15:10:53




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2005 14:32:54  
Let me ask this,, same cubic inch engines, but 1 is a low compression engine, and one is a high compression engine. Same cfm carb on both. How can the low compression engine draw as much air as the high compression engine? Ive always belived if the vacuum pressure does increase by a compression jump, air speed is increased, how can you get one reaction, and not the other? Now, lets talk about a Farmall M, not a V8, or a diesel. If I took the same small carb, both jetted the same, but different load settings, the low compression would have the load set leaner than the high compression. the high compression, may do 1 of 2 things,, 1 it is not enough fuel, and has to have the jet increased, or 2, the jet is large enough to handle the system change, but, if the jet is rich, that means you have more air pressure and drawing more fuel than air, then we install a bigger venturi, and it leans out, I belive it leans out because now, its letting in more air and mixing up that same amount of fuel set for the smaller venturi, but since there is more air, and air speed is dropped by the larger venturi, how can there be not more air entering the cyl? Chad

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Lamont

07-10-2005 20:23:10




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to ChadS, 07-10-2005 15:10:53  
????? Just leads to more questions for me. I'd better stick to the physics part outside of the engine. Need to study up a little on airflow I guess.



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ChadS

07-11-2005 07:02:04




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 Re: Compression verses HP in reply to Lamont, 07-10-2005 20:23:10  
I dunno! All I do is build and tune, build and tune, I know the parts, and bout what it takes to achive a certain HP range, and do it with smaller cubic inches,, I read em through the plug color, and the compression for the cubic inch, you can see on the dyno,, if it is running correctly,, its either strong, or its kinda soft in the torque curve. Chad



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