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ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ?

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the BEAR truth

03-10-2002 16:31:36

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Are certain members of the NATPA board immune to rules? I've heard through the Indiana pipeline that the 460 coming out of Lemon's shop has a German diesel block that is illegal by Division V rules. This model is already allowed excessive rpms and now this particular group is trying to go 1 step further and use the wrong block. What does this mean for Razzle Dazzle, The Feedlot Special, and other current Division V tractors who are running the right block? For the sake of the competitors and the viability of the organization, I hope the board and the tech committee step up to the plate and does not allow this to happen, no matter what your last name or position are.

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G Taylor

03-12-2002 14:47:18

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

What is the difference in internal dimensions from the stock 460 block that makes these various substitues so desirable?

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Tyler

03-12-2002 14:32:52

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

Do any of you wieners even pull division 5?

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EFV

03-11-2002 11:59:22

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

German diesel block is 1/4 shorter than

221-301 gas blocks! 30" versus 29.75 by my tape

measure.Gas block has a "flag" shape to it,

cylinder part of block is approx. 28" , meaning

the gas head won't fit. Wish you Henny Penny

types would do a little research BEFORE starting

the bashing.I liked the M diesel idea. Rules state

that diesel ONLY engines can't be converted. Was

Lemmons using the injection setup for fuel supply

ala'forthcoming 8.1 BB Chevy direct injection

engine?

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thanks-you just proved yourself Bear/Lemons is wrong!

03-11-2002 13:56:52

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to EFV, 03-11-2002 11:59:22

Thanks EFV--you just proved your beloved Lemons is trying to put in the wrong block! Div 5 rules say replacement blocks MUST BE THE SAME LENGTH...1/4" shorter does not make it legal. He probably wants the shorter length since its wider/taller also?!? Again, slowly, so you understand, it is still WRONG!!!!! Shorter/Longer is the same....NOT THE SAME LENGTH! Tell us wise one, what gas head will he use then since it is a lot wider than the 460 block?!?

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EFV

03-11-2002 15:13:05

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Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to thanks-you just proved yourself Bear/Lemons is wrong!, 03-11-2002 13:56:52

I am typing slowly,try and keep up. German diesel block is shorter,therefore illegal. People
are saying without checking first that Bear's
engine is illegal. How does anyone know what block
is in Bill's tractor? As you said,what head is being used? Can't be a C221-301 head,it isn't long
enough. Maybe Bill's engine ISN'T a German diesel.
Could it be the diesel block instead of the gas
block? People get these engines confused.Making
a German diesel engine look like a C221-301 is
too much,even for Bill's wallet! Have a nice day

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talked to someone who saw it-IT'S GERMAN

03-12-2002 14:13:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to EFV, 03-11-2002 15:13:05

Sorry EVP,XYZ,ABC or whoever-I'm afraid the boys let you down! Let's try to go by the rules from now on! Wonder if they'll try to "ammend" them for this person!!!

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EFV

03-13-2002 03:58:52

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to talked to someone who saw it-IT'S GERMAN, 03-12-2002 14:13:27

Someone saw it and it is definitely German,O.K. My question is what did the cylinder head and
manifolds look like? Tape measure says can't be using original head or factory replacement. Seeing that I doubt it is the German diesel,has anyone measured a DT 360 to check block length?
Sorry about being a doubting Thomas,have suffered to much from "experts" and "eyewitnesses" who couldn't tell the difference between the open
or box end of the wrench! Have a nice day

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mike

03-13-2002 05:46:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to EFV, 03-13-2002 03:58:52

that's the question, what head will they try to use? Since its German diesel block, they almost have to try to use diesel heads..thats illegal too, but do they care!?!

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IN THE KNOW!!

03-11-2002 15:40:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to EFV, 03-11-2002 15:13:05

EFV, There is one thing you are 100% wrong about, Bill's wallet is plenty deep and very wide! I know, I tried to find the bottom, but only scratched the surface!!!

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Why would you exspect anything else?

03-11-2002 08:32:41

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

Hey his name is Bear that's no different than Burch is it?? When Burch wanted an RPM advantage over all other brands he got it even without the membership vote! So this time its Bears turn. Anyone that supports the NATPA should realize this by now or they sure have been sleeping. I don't feel sorry for anybody that supports this "CLICK" as this is no new news. All I can say is keep supporting this members as all you are doing is paying for the cheaters winnings and insurance fees and who knows what else?? They bad mouthed Harshfield, he is an angel compared to what has been going on the last few years.

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about 460 engines...

03-10-2002 21:11:18

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

saw a guy pulling 460, and a 560 a few yrs ago. he told me that they both had engines out of 720 Turbo Diesel Gleaners.

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Confused in west Ne

03-10-2002 19:14:43

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

natpa Div. 5 rule says crankcase must be same manufacture as original, same length, as original same number of cylinders as org. make and model. Is the diesel block different dimensions. Most of the 460 560 I see run have 301 blocks to start with.

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Jeff

03-11-2002 08:25:22

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to Confused in west Ne, 03-10-2002 19:14:43

they say the block is LONGER than than the 301...unless Mr Bear tries to "shave his down" to hide it! Not right!!!

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JON

03-10-2002 18:09:22

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

This certainly wouldnt be the first illegal block out of Lemmons shop. They made him take a diesel block out of his M gas not too long ago . Makes you wonder what block he put in that little ford dont it? I saw some of his "stock" replacement castings the other day huge combustion chambers and raised ports with extra thick casting what a joke but like they say its not who you know but who you blow

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38G

03-11-2002 08:27:48

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to JON, 03-10-2002 18:09:22

DOESN'T THIS HURT LEMMONS REPUTABILITY?? Thought they could do good work with the RIGHT BLOCK!!??

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Mike F.

03-10-2002 16:57:38

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Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to the BEAR truth, 03-10-2002 16:31:36

Your comment on the 460 stirred somthing that happened to me last summer. I was at a pull with my A stroker in the open class,this was a antique pull by the way, most clubs don't even let 460-560 tractors pull with us, but this guy shows up and wants to pull his hot 460, there were only 5 entries in the class. 4 of us pulled and this guy, with firesuit and scattershields pulls up and says,"are you winning any pulls this year?" I said that I had, but only against stuff my vintage. He proceded to haul it down the track and break their sled, shutting the pull down for an hour, the point is, he didn't belong at this caliber of a pull. Now illegal blocks? What next?

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Dan Park

03-15-2002 04:00:55

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to Mike F., 03-10-2002 16:57:38

To Mike F we live 20 miles from that pull and have been asked to bring the 460 there for the last 4 years I do not know what you are complaning about we pulled in the open class and there where other 560s pulling in the stock class that night if I remember properly the sled had A problem after you hooked because I sat there about 10 min. waiting to hook and then it broke after I pulled that is about the 10th time I have hooked that sled in four years so I don't think we are to much for the sled that sled has hooked some pretty hot farm stock 1066s-970 case's we just try to have some fun my comment to you was nothing more than asking how your tractor was doing not trying to compare to our 460 because I know we are A little farther along than your tractor is I don't have to drive very far to find tractors that will beat our 460

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redblood

03-11-2002 18:40:53

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to Mike F., 03-10-2002 16:57:38

you know div 5 was adopted so that the jd's and the smaller allis's wouldnt have to pull with the big 6 cylinder engines in div 5 alot of the tractors in div 5 have only one div to pull in re 770/880 olivers 460/560 super 95 massey G VI molines. all of the other tractors can pull any div they want. when they do step up to pull with the div 5 tractors they whine and cry when they get beat. lets just leave div 5 tractors alone and leave the pissants to pull in div 4 and under

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burns

03-11-2002 13:14:53

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to Mike F., 03-10-2002 16:57:38

Hey Mike, I wonder if Parks is going to bring his 1066 this summer. Of course the way it runs, a JD H could out pull it. How come Lustic got the $$ and Dan got the big F-Bomb

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art

03-10-2002 18:44:28

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Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to Mike F., 03-10-2002 16:57:38

They're all cheating!!! the olivers the MM now the farmal people too! How can the guys with the power blocks and kansas heads compete? boo whooo

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Jeff

03-11-2002 08:14:52

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Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to art, 03-10-2002 18:44:28

Art-If this block really is longer, than it HAS to be illegal! Noone would be really whining if that's true! Why should Bill Bear be allowed to do this if really its too long? If he "shaves it down" to appear correct, that will not matter. Whatever the factory says is the correct length of German Diesel VS 460/806 is the comparison. Will his "name" let him get this thru? I agree with you there are a lot of complaining about stuff, BUT THIS APPEARS TO BE VALID!! I agree with with above statements, an illegal block is unfair to Brooks and all the other 460/560 pullers who have built their engines the right way!!

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88MAN

03-10-2002 18:54:15

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Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to art, 03-10-2002 18:44:28

What do you mean by olivers cheating?

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oldtmr

03-11-2002 18:53:58

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Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to 88MAN, 03-10-2002 18:54:15

Seen a 3 cyl JD the other day, is that legal??Seriously the "stock" cheaters is what ruined our week end "fun" pulls around here and a lot of other places.I guess that's evalution,It always seems to happen in all the fun pasttime sports.I still have a stock "G" John Deere,Restoring another one.Want to pull????

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Jeff Oliver

03-11-2002 21:20:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to oldtmr, 03-11-2002 18:53:58

hehe sure I'll pull against ya:) I have a stock RC 77 and a stock RC 88. So stock they still have the factory hitch on them..LOL!!!! with a G you would probably win but who cares!!! It's all in fun to me :)

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art

03-11-2002 17:01:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: ILLEGAL BLOCKS IN 460's ? in reply to 88MAN, 03-10-2002 18:54:15

HAVE ANY OF THE COMPLAINERS SEEN BILL'S BLOCK? I DOUBT IT, EVERYONE HAS "HEARD IT MIGHT BE THIS OR MIGHT BE THAT" Sounds like a lot of old women gossiping. Art

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