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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Any value in knowing lbs pulled?

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Harvesterguy

11-18-2005 10:15:13




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I am working with the local Young Farmers group to provide an educational aspect to an antique tractor pull. It was suggested to include a load cell in the pull chain and record the maximum pounds pulled for each hook and display/announce for the audience. I can put the system together for about $1000, but have my doubts that it would be of any value. What are everyone's thoughts?

I am concerned because the force recorded by the load cell will include both an element of pulling force and weight transfer to the tractor. Therefore the machine with the highest recorded lbs may not pull the longest distance. Is there an oportunity to create some sort of percentage pull with the load cell results? I appreciate any input from those of you with pulling experience. Harvesterguy

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buickanddeere

11-19-2005 18:23:56




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
Shock loading of the load cell can be prevented by installing an "over travel stop".



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phil2

11-19-2005 16:47:56




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
I pulled at the event of another club where an in-line load cell was used. The 128 pulls averaged 86% - the highest was 115% but very few went over 100%. These were Antique Pullers, 4 mph and lower. The average includes the pulls that powered out or broke down. If only the spin-outs were counted, the % would be close to 100. With an antique in a crawler gear, it becomes a game of balance & tire pressure - when those were correct, the scores ran very close to 100%. The system worked great - the initial jerk & bounce was not displayed for maybe 50'. After that, the announcer continuously called out the readings as the sled weight climbed the rails. But the readings were smooth, very little jitter & bounce after the pull was underway.

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Harvesterguy

11-19-2005 13:09:29




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
I appreciate all the input and comments. My thoughts were to use a load cell rated for 50,000 lbs as I have some other applications it would be handy for and need that much capacity. I am reasonably confident that a 50k cell should handle the shock loading but still have concerns as mentioned by Jim earlier that significant signal conditioning will be necessary to prevent the readout from bouncing around. I have no doubts that I can make it work, just whether it'll be worth the money.

I like the sugestions to calculate horsepower, but in order to be accurate I'll have to measure the exact hitch height on each machine in order to factor out the weight transfer to the tractor. Plus, the added expense of tying a speedometer and the load cell into a computer to calculate hp would make it our of our budget.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm taking away from the comments is:
It would be neat & entertaining to calculate all of the info (hp, lbs pulled, lbs transferred), but aside from making this a percentage pull calculation tool there is no educational value, besides the cool factor.

Just a little background on what I'm doing here. I'm an cooperative extension engineer working with the state young farmers group, who want to use the pull as a fund raiser. However, in the past the insurance and arena rents made the event un-profitable. If I can create an educational component to the pull, I can justify using the University Insurance to cover the event. A win-win for everyone. I just haven't been able to think of a good educational component for the audience. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks for all of your advice.

-Harvesterguy

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Jim in OH

11-19-2005 18:47:49




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-19-2005 13:09:29  
I think that it would be very educational. It seems like that these numbers would be useful at the tech school or Ag college level. Real world numbers might not be useful for the pullers, but for technical types, it would be great. I am interested because I have built a mathematical model of tractor pulling and I would like to see what the real numbers are. Jim



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720Deere

11-19-2005 14:15:37




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-19-2005 13:09:29  
It won't fly as justification, but I have surely been "schooled" at a few pulls before. Ending up at the bottom of the class can certainly be "educational"!



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jd b puller

11-18-2005 16:48:41




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
well, if you could capture the RPM, Ground Speed and load all at the same time, you could calculate HP. You don"t need the RPM to calculate the HP, just to know at what RPM you have what HP...



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A.P.

11-19-2005 01:42:17




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to jd b puller, 11-18-2005 16:48:41  
Actually you can calculate the horsepower put to the track. One horsepower is defined as 550 foot pounds per second. So the (pull in pounds) x (speed in feet/second) divided by 550 will give the horsepower. The speed in feet per second can be calculated from the speed in miles per hour. A correction factor may be needed depending on if the pull in pounds is actually being measured parallel to the track surface or in line with the chain.

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Captainhookerus

11-18-2005 16:01:41




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
I used my pull meter and found the max pull to be at the beginning and fell way off after the sled was moving. Our game is mostly about drawbar horse power, pounds pull and speed at equal tractor weights will get most distance.



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dctom

11-18-2005 13:55:30




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
We pull percentage in our coub, we have a formula of weitght started plus weight added by how far the weight box moves up the rails devided by tractor weight, it is not accruate but the same for all your load cell may be more accurate as to pounds pulled but still same for all



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Jim in OH

11-18-2005 13:15:24




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
First, I'd try to see if I could rent a load cell or get someone to donate the use of one. $1000 sounds like you are trying to buy it... IMHO not a good way to go first time out of the box..

Second, assuming that everyone in a class has about the same hitch geometry (height and length), in theory, the chain(load cell) force will be proportional to BOTH the horizontal force and the vertical lift force. The mathematical relationship is just a function of the angle the chain. [Horizontal Force =Chain Force* cosine(angle of chain to the ground), etc.. ]... so from that standpoint, it will be indicative of the pulling force and would be interesting and useful information.

Having said that, (and without going into the detail of my reasons why) I think that you will have problems measuring a steady meaningful number without some experience on how to condition the signal so I would not plan on it being anything other than for educational entertainment.

Go for it.. I'd like to hear the results!!

Jim

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Zeke MIller

11-18-2005 12:59:46




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
Here is a side thought for your setup. Your load cell needs to be able to handle high shock loads. I say this from my experiences operating the transfer sled for our club. Some people will intensionally or unintensionally bounce off the end of the chain when they go to tighten it. Then you might get a new puller who will tighten the chain and not realize their tractor rolled back a little. They are so excited, they wind up the RPM"s and dump the clutch. The worst I ever had was a guy who had a bad clutch or something. He hit the end of the chain three times before the sled moved and hard enough to knock the CB mic off the hanger.

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G/MAN

11-18-2005 10:48:18




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 Re: Any value in knowing lbs pulled? in reply to Harvesterguy, 11-18-2005 10:15:13  
There are many "percentage pulls" all over the country. They're pretty popular, in fact. Tractors compete to pull the greatest percentage of their own weight. A way of comparing apples to oranges so to speak. If a 4000-lb. tractor can pull 150% of it's weight, it's more efficient and a "better puller" than a 6000-lb. tractor that tops out at 125%. I watched some on RFDTV a few years ago, and I think some of those were pulling over 200%.

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