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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

450 cam in a super m

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red_man22

12-01-2005 16:18:33




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will a farmall 450 cam in a super m help much? what other cams is there that could be put in it? anyone know where one is for sale?if i buy a 450 cam do i have to have 450 lifters to?




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ChadS

12-02-2005 05:19:42




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to red_man22, 12-01-2005 16:18:33  
SM-450 is the same grind. Only difference is the nut is left handed threads on the 450 cams. The SM-450 cam would help out a M, cause it has a better grind VS the M, so its like having a RV cam in an auto engine to give it some more torque and HP. The left hand nut was intended for the live hyd pumps, so it doesnt spin the nut off the end of the cam and let the cam gear fall off,, SMTA"s was famous for that happening. See, when IH upgraded the M to the Super M, they made changes thru out the engine, they recasted the blocks with a larger casted bore to allow a 4-1/8 sleeve kit for the 281,, it made it easy to upgrade the SM up to the 450 sleeve and pistons. They also changed from stepped head pistons, to the firecrater design. The firecrater setup required a head casting change in the chamber to clear the piston, also the changed the cam grind to match the head and flow from the firecraters. The crank journals were larger in diamter in the Supers-450"s,,, and the clutch and flywheels were different as well. Bigger diamter clutches, and the flywheel is a bit heavier in weight VS the M, not much, but a few pounds,,, If you took all the guts from a SM-450 and put it in a M,,, that would wake up a M quite a bit!! ChadS

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DWV

12-02-2005 18:59:38




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to ChadS, 12-02-2005 05:19:42  
Chad going to disagree that all the SM cam profiles are the same as 450.Also on rear main seals in the post by mperfection below you said they were different from small journal crank to large journal.They use same seal.



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ChadS

12-04-2005 04:32:18




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to DWV, 12-02-2005 18:59:38  
DWV, I have yet to find any difference in a SM-450 cam, Except the left handed cam nut. My Ih parts book show 1 part number thru all SM tractors,,, and the 450 had the new part number,1 number,, but the grinds were the same, at least, from what I have had measured, and compared to the two,,, The rear seals are the same housing, basicly, the felt seal just compresses more with the large journal cranks, The part number for the seal housing,is what I was thinking of when I posted, but did not get that specific,,, Was you able to use some parts from that 9 speed??? Chad

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DWV

12-04-2005 13:44:15




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to ChadS, 12-04-2005 04:32:18  
Chad, need to look at # on camshaft itself.Some you can't find a # and some have been changed over there lifetime.Have seen advertisement for 400 tractor when they were new that said cam was one of the things changed for more power over the SM.Looked for it today but haven't found yet. Did find this in blue ribbon form GSS-1170 SMTA and
WW6TA C-264 engine. Replacing production camshaft
with 45955-DA (400 series camshaft)will provide
increased engine power due to revised valve timing.If you can find the # on cam the left thread ones have DB after #.Used one gear,was all I needed. Thanks Dave

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ChadS

12-05-2005 07:23:43




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to DWV, 12-04-2005 13:44:15  
I would like to see that info when you find it. if you would, could you email a copy of the ad? I have been told, that some of the early Super M"s retained the old M camshaft, along with the 8060 head,,, I have not seen this yet, I have not had a very early 52 SM in to really know if that is accurate, but I would not doubt it if that did happen back then,,, Im wondering about why they upgraded the cams once more after the inital change to the Supers,,, I would suspect, that the cam gear kept comming apart in the fields,,, would IH have recommended to replace the cam with the new style cam, as far as it being a left hand thread on the nut,, I have repaired several SM-SMTA tractors that had the cam nut come off, and the gear break teeth off,,, when orderd parts for that tractor,, they sent the left handed cam,,,, Is it a repair bullitin you have, or is it a option ad? Chad

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Mcred

12-01-2005 20:17:16




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 Re: 450 cam in a super m in reply to red_man22, 12-01-2005 16:18:33  
yes Red man the 450 cam will work well in your super M I put a 450 cam in my M I used the same lifters and pushrods and not a problem it helps lugging ability quite a bit



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