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Oliver/GM

Deere color war.

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G-MAN

04-02-2002 07:31:35

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I am so sorry that I caused such a ruckus. I thought this was supposed to be a discussion board, not a place for someone to complain about a tractor they're not even interested in, as the people who posted on Olivers did. Like I said, I like all old tractors. I simply prefer Deere. I could have easily been an Allis fan, Oliver fan, or anything else, but I'm not. I certainly wouldn't turn down another brand of tractor if somebody gave me one, but I elect to spend my money on Deeres. It doesn't really matter what anyone says, Deere is still the only original company in existence, regardless of how much money they lost last quarter, etc. Remember when Chrysler was on the brink of bankruptcy? Seems like they recovered pretty well, and Deere is in nowhere near the financial trouble that they were. So, I guess if a Deere owner can't express their opinion about another brand on here, I'll just stick to the Deere board, people seem to be much more friendly and helpful there. Thanks for your time.

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sorry to mention JD in the Gm Vs anything string

04-02-2002 22:19:38

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

i didnt plan any color war. What i had intended was showing how simply and cheaply the horsepower on those Jimmy engines could be pumped. As far as that one person that claimed fuel is incompressible, would you explain to me and the rest of the audience how a cummins PT fuel sytem works? it has continous flowing injectors with no plunger or throttle control. Simple the more rail pressure, the more fuel it gets, the faster it goes. seems funny how i see tons of posts about countless mods to X engines, but all this can be done with simple over the counter DETROIT STOCK COMPONENTS. and yes they biggest thing you can add to a detroit is air and fuel, hence the blower mods and injector swap. HOW TRUE, however is the fact that this old boy wont be plowing anymore, but none of the modded up pullers we seem to like have that much of a plowing future either. love them or hate them, the Cat, the Jimmy, and the 290 Cummins made this country what it is, with economical trucking, and power supply. BTW does anyone have a Farm tractor with a Cummins 903 in it? i know some real darn cool tricks for them as well!! been playing with diesels since 1980, i know a few tricks. heck most people didnt know that the engine in their Dodge Ram cummins diesel can be run up to 275 truck twisting, axle breaking hp. Dodge still cant run it full power, none of their components will take it.

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Jim (Mi)

04-03-2002 05:44:16

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to sorry to mention JD in the Gm Vs anything string, 04-02-2002 22:19:38

Actually Dodge don't run it full power for emissions. BTW have you seen the new Cummins 5.9. It is slated for 2004 Dodge trucks. It is unbelievable. Already driven it. My friend is trying to work out the rear end problems with the new truck. I was amazed at how much quieter it runs. You can actually order from McDonald's.

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burns

04-03-2002 08:39:12

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Jim (Mi), 04-03-2002 05:44:16

All you need to do to make the truck quieter is to remove the resonator and muffler. 8^)

Can you share whether or not the lift pump issue has been addressed on the new 5.9?

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Jim (Mi)

04-03-2002 09:26:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to burns, 04-03-2002 08:39:12

Burns, I forwarded the question on. My friend is a test engineer for Daimler. He diagnoses and fixes trans & difs I believe. He should be able to get me an answer. I will forward on as soon as I get a response.

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A.P.

04-03-2002 16:22:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Jim (Mi), 04-03-2002 09:26:07

Jim does your friend know if they will finally have a true crew cab truck available? I have a friend with a '97 who loves his. He turned up the fuel a bit on it last winter and loves it even more now.

Take care,
A.P.

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Jim (Mi)

04-04-2002 05:06:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to A.P., 04-03-2002 16:22:54

By true crew cab, your answer is no. I was in the 2004 dually, it does have the four true doors, but the frame is still only 4 or 6 inches longer on the crew cab as the club cab. Those dummies still refuse to accept bigger people want the back seat leg clearance to be the same as the front.

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A.P.

04-03-2002 02:14:00

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to sorry to mention JD in the Gm Vs anything string, 04-02-2002 22:19:38

I appreciate the information that you are sharing. I would love to talk with you off board about Detroit and other brand diesel engines.

I know one gentleman in Ontario that has/had two JD's that are repowered with Cummins motors. I can't remember if they are 903's or 855's. They were 5010 or 5020 models. There is a local (two miles)gentleman who has a Detroit re-powered Deere. I haven't been out to see it yet but hope to in the next week or so. I heard it has a 8V-71 but will find out for sure later.

The Cummins and Detroit engine swaps were a very popular swap into the big Deere's. They were done for several reasons; more power, economic, and durability. The Cummins engine is still a popular engine to swap into a Deere (big 4x4), Oliver, White and probably other brands.

Take care,
A.P.

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Jonathan

04-02-2002 18:42:36

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

The way I look at it is, well, I believe that every tractor, car, truck, or whatever has its pluses and minuses. I can guarentee that everyone here has a favorite brand because its either what they grew up with or because they happened to buy one and liked it. Like me for example I lean toward farmalls more because that is what I use on the farm here everyday and at work. And I will tell you that I have used deeres as well and I can give you a list of things that I like and dislike about both brands. I would own both brands and in fact I do, I have 1 jd 50 along with 3 internationals, and 1 ford. I like them all for certain reasons, they each have features which are more suitable for certain jobs. like say if I went out to build fence all day and here in vermont there are lots of stones and uneven ground, so which tractor would be better? the jd with the rollamatic front end or my farmall H with the solid front end thats gonna break your arms every time it hits a little pothole or stone?. Geez color wars are stupid, a complete waste of time, all brands had to be good in order to make it.
stop the nonsense people
Jonathan

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A Man

04-05-2002 17:30:06

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Jonathan, 04-02-2002 18:42:36

wait till one of those gm blows up and scatters part all over the place how many people get killed from flying parts they think a steam engine is dangerous

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A Man

04-02-2002 17:45:31

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

Oliver/GM just a want to be a john deere

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A Boy no one wants to be a stinky John!!!!!

04-02-2002 19:03:30

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to A Man, 04-02-2002 17:45:31

HA HA HA go JD, go JD, NOT!!!!!

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Big D

04-02-2002 17:08:31

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

G-Man you are right in so many way's. The people in this form are so stuck on their COLOR that they dont stop to realise that from the time they were little RED,GREEN,ORANGE,WHITE,BLUE,GRAY and YELLOW doted the land scape and you know what they all were doing the same job at the same time with no complants because it was running.
Come on guy's get real this is a FORM not a pissing contest. Wear your color and wear it proud. But let each man wear his own without slander.

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Bye

04-02-2002 15:48:16

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

Enjoy the Deere board!

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buckmaster700

04-02-2002 15:41:53

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

it is all in how much you want to dump into the money pitt they can all do a full pull just dump more money

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Rodney King

04-02-2002 15:14:39

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

Can't we all just get along?

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RED RULES

04-02-2002 12:31:23

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

"SEE YA, g man!!!!!" I wish you could stay "NOT"

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G-MAN

04-02-2002 14:09:42

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to RED RULES, 04-02-2002 12:31:23

I'm pretty sure I'll stay as long as I want. I just won't waste my time on people that can't or won't listen to reason, including you. Have a nice day.

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Makeup your mind! Go...stay...go...stay; Just go already!

04-02-2002 18:36:39

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 14:09:42

You have certainly put forth no effort in making friends here. You deserve whatever you get.

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except for the fact

04-02-2002 11:33:00

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

that Deere never came up with anything on their own. John Deere the man invented that plow, nothing else. They took over Waterloo Boy for tractors and stuck with the 2 cylinder design until 1960 when they finally came out with a 6 cylinder tractor and told everyone it was a new idea. Other makes of tractors had 6 cylinder engines available since the 1930's.

Deere is not a decent company, they just steal ideas from everyone else and call it a new invention.

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Who cares that it is still John Deere, we are talking about old tractors not new ones!!!

04-02-2002 10:48:34

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

GET REAL G - boy

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Greg H.

04-02-2002 11:13:22

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Who cares that it is still John Deere, we are talking about old tractors not new ones!!!, 04-02-2002 10:48:34

Please does someone have any questions about tires, hitch set ups, or which block will bolt up in whatever tractor model or not?? anybody?? please!! I can't take much more of all this apples and oranges crap. G Taylor; tell me' how high a compression ratio does one's engine has to possess before Higher octain gasoline is needed? your response is welcome, Greg H.

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G Taylor

04-02-2002 12:25:50

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Greg H., 04-02-2002 11:13:22

Octane requiements in a spark ignition engine vary with compression ratio,combustion chamber swirl,coolant type/temp, air fuel mixture/temp,cam timing,combustion chamber shape, location of spark plug, type of metal the head is cast from, amount of soot and oil oil in the combustion chambers, valve location, atmospheric pressure to name most of the main influences. If you are talking diesel then you want 45 to 50 cetane fuel. 21 to 1 in a "N" natural aspirated 53 series with 2800 rpm with a four valve head & 2400rpm with a two valve head. The 71's top out at 2300 rpm and 18.7 in the "N" series.These full laod rated rpms are with new factory valve springs.

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info for the know it all G Taylor, you DONT know it all!!!!!!!

04-04-2002 16:07:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:25:50

You talk of this great fuel efficency JD set back in the late fiftys with those poppers, you had better look at test number 766 with the 1800 oliver in 1960 it established an all - time low record of 0.472 pounds per horse power-hour on the maximum power of the power take off test. This record has yet to be broken at any official labatory test. You just thought that you knew it all!!! Go blow your smoke up someone elses a$$ !!!!! !

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G Taylor fuel efficiency records 27+ years

04-04-2002 19:01:52

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to info for the know it all G Taylor, you DONT know it all!!!!!!!, 04-04-2002 16:07:37

Interested in facts? And who tells the fairy tails you believe? The 1949 R's record fuel efficiency was later bettered by the 70D & 80. The 720D for the 1957 production year broke the Nebraska record with .383 lbs per HP per hr. The blackdash 820, 830 & 840 were close with .394 lbs per HP per hr or 16.56 HP per gallon per hour. Drawbar measured. This record was bettered by a JD 1650 27 years later. The gas 620/630 set a gasoline efficiency record as well, 11.25 HP per hour per gallon on the drawbar which is less efficient than pto or pulley. And I didn't even have to use profanity posting a message.

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Goldsburg

04-02-2002 18:51:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:25:50

G. Taylor -

I read your post with interest. You talk about using fuel with a 45 to 50 cetane number in a diesel. Those kinds of cetane numbers are only achieved in commercial fuel by the use of cetane improving additives. These additives, while improving the cetane rating, actually detract from the overall power output of the engine once it is up to operating temperature. This is due to the additives lowering the density of the homogeneous fuel (mixture). While a high cetane number is great for starting, it is not recommended for high performance power. For that (assuming you will not be adding anything else to it yourself!), a person should stick to "good ole" #2 diesel (cetane rating of 38 to 40). This information was taken from a SAE article concerning fuel cetane ratings, additives, and their implications on modern, electronically controlled, high injection pressure, common rail fuel systems (for diesel).

Regards,

Goldsburg

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G Taylor

04-03-2002 04:36:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Goldsburg, 04-02-2002 18:51:25

Certainly anything that reduces the btu's per pound or reduces fuel density will cut power unless the engine is grossly over fueled. The cetain booster we use is a 12 ounce can of Amsoil booster in 100 gallons of #2 diesel so dillution isn't too serious. Gets cold enough here to gell or wax #2 diesel in winter. Anything that improves starting is welcome in the tank from October to April.

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G-MAN

04-02-2002 14:03:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:25:50

Greg, G Taylor did answer your question about octane requirements in the first part of his post. Basically, the way I understand it is that the octane rating required depends on a lot of different variables. One type of engine may be able to run 10:1 on pump gas, another may require more exotic fuels. I'm not trying to be smart here, I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss something.

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Greg H.

04-03-2002 09:55:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 14:03:55

You are right, I did overread his response the first time. Don't worry about me, as long as people are trying to help I got no complaints. Later on, Greg H.

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Greg H.

04-02-2002 13:32:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:25:50

G Taylor,
thanks for the response. I was asking Gasoline, but mainly I just wanted someone to talk about something relatively intellegent for just a moment. Later, Greg H.

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Jim (Mi)

04-02-2002 09:28:19

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

How much of Deere is actually made in America. There is a Ford dealer down the road. I guess they have the same status as Deere since they are still around. Personally if they are being built overseas and the profits are being sent here, still being around sounds only like a consolation prize. Personally I would rather buy something that was made here and the profits sent overseas, but I am unaware of any such AG company.

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G Taylor

04-02-2002 12:42:32

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Jim (Mi), 04-02-2002 09:28:19

Most people care where the equipment came from until it's time to save themselves a few thousand bucks. The 95HP Mexican built 6003/6005 is way cheaper than the German built 6000's to gain market share at the entry level. Someone is always complaining that JD is too expensive, cut the price & someone else complains. At the low price for a new with warrenty there is no need to find a 4020 to restore & use for a primary tractor. The Waterloo built 7000,8000 & 9000's plus most of the equipment is built in US or Canada. How much of the 4000 & 5000's are built or assembled in US depends on who you ask. Yanmar is supposed to be a puppet company mostly owned by JD anyways, again it depends on who you ask. The garden tractors are US built but engine origins vary.

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Nelly

04-02-2002 16:42:13

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:42:32

G Trailer, G-Boy, who cares? This is a tractor pulling forum, not a forum to discuss where your lawn mowers are built. If you want to do that go to tractor talk or find a different website all together (preferably). Oh, and can Burns post some more pics of his wild custom intake and exhaust pipes (I didn't know stock Deere guys could afford chrome parts). Personally I've never seen a bunch of guys that can't figure stuff out as much as you John Deere guys on here, try to figure it out yourself.

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Jim (Mi)

04-03-2002 05:26:40

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Nelly, 04-02-2002 16:42:13

Actually Nelly I sincerely wanted to know how much was made in the U.S.A. I have no qualms with any old tractor. I have a JD lawn tractor that I work on 4 hours to cut for 1. Terrible little machine. But am wanting to buy a G. Love watching them pull. I currently have an Allis.

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A Man

04-06-2002 19:24:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Jim (Mi), 04-03-2002 05:26:40

One more person that saw the light

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G-MAN

04-02-2002 14:06:35

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G Taylor , 04-02-2002 12:42:32

You're absolutely right G. We've been hearing that Deere is going back to a lot of Briggs & Stratton engines in some of their mowers. Previously they used a lot of Kawasaki and Kohler - both good engines. Some of the hand-held equipment is now using Mistubishi engines, once again, they seem to perform well.

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burns

04-02-2002 08:07:32

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Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 07:31:35

Believe me I have made my share of friends on this board when it comes to color wars and opinions.

Do yourself a favor...let it go. Try not to care so much

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Slow A

04-02-2002 13:08:39

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Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to burns, 04-02-2002 08:07:32

Good Lord....is this going to regress to "my Daddy can beat up your Daddy"

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G-MAN

04-02-2002 14:08:05

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Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to Slow A, 04-02-2002 13:08:39

Just trying to lighten the mood a little.

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Slow A

04-02-2002 18:49:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 14:08:05

G-MAN, My childish post was not directed to you or the other adult pullers on this "discussion" board. The childish post is directed to those inmature adults(?) that can only lash out with their small, uneducated, pitiful little voices which are hidden behind their PC monitor. I am sure they have a very small trophy case in which to store all of the gold they have won, or, they have a very very large amount of trophies; but that is very possible all they have in life- pulling trophies. Sad...just sad that this is all these people belive in: tractor color. Funny but almost all of the pullers I know with the very best equipment (pulling tractors) are not color blind at all, we get along just fine- why one of my best friends pulls an oillie. But you see, none of my pulling friends are insecure children. We play a mans game and we are men about it. We also have other intrest in life too, our life is not dominated by pulling (my wife may not agree totally with that last statement!) So children: 1- grow up 2- get a life 3- have fun

Slow A

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smoker

04-02-2002 18:04:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to G-MAN, 04-02-2002 14:08:05

How come only the Deere guys leave their e-mail address. I was reading all the worthless posts again and noticed that only the sensible talking people leave their e-mail addresses. Am I missing something here. Are you guys brave enough to be smarta$$es on here but not brave enough to take a little in return?

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A.P.

04-03-2002 02:04:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to smoker , 04-02-2002 18:04:56

If you are talking about the original group of posts, my email address there for each one. It it here foe this one. I don't classify myself as a John deere person. Maybe someher near sensible though.

Take care,
A.P.

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Slow A

04-02-2002 19:01:06

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oliver/GM - Deere color war. in reply to smoker , 04-02-2002 18:04:56

Sorry- in my haste I forgot to post my Email address

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